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  1. #331
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    Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year

    Quote Originally Posted by Twodogs View Post
    I can see the ball being returned to the wrong player a lot.
    Which, if anything, is actually unsportsmanlike from the team receiving the free kick.

  2. #332
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    Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year

    I'm sick of it. Soccer is so steeped in tradition you wouldn't likey tinker with the game like we do in AFL.
    It needs more independent oversight. AFL should be classed as Australian heritage ( or something like that! ) listing and do more to protect the traditions.
    You don't develop courage by being happy in your relationships every day. You develop it by surviving difficult times and challenging adversity. ― Epicurus

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  4. #333
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    Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year

    Perhaps players will all be treated like The Bont when getting pinged for HTB now. I swear he gets done more than most.

  5. #334
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    Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year

    Quote Originally Posted by jazzadogs View Post
    Which, if anything, is actually unsportsmanlike from the team receiving the free kick.
    It's funny right. Once upon a time (and not that long ago) if the player who took a mark/received a free kick didn't 'move it' he could (and would) be penalised for wasting time.

    Now? Just stand there and hold it forever...it is not 'unsportsmanlike' but it isn't really aligned with the aim of the game (scoring goals). There will always be good games and bad games (of every sport) but I just wish we could encourage players to move it on more quickly and be prepared to kick to a contest more often. (Contest is not massive pack of players btw).
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  6. #335
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    Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year

    Hard to interpret’: Holding the ball ruling under the microscope


    Western Bulldogs champion Marcus Bontempelli has warned the tightened holding-the-ball ruling remains a work in progress, with the toughest call for umpires set to be judging if a player has been tackled spinning out of a pack.

    In a bid to keep the game moving and ease the growing frustration felt by players and coaches last season, the AFL has upgraded its ruling, declaring that if players choose to evade, fend, duck or neglect a prior opportunity to dispose of the ball, they will be penalised.

    The AFL also hopes a quicker call will help alleviate a tendency for the tackled player to be, as AFL operations general manager Brad Scott said, “dumped into the ground”, thereby increasing the risk of head injury.

    Bontempelli said umpires had recently stood in a Bulldogs’ intra-club clash, and defining whether a player had been fully tackled when stepping out of a pack was a topic of debate.


    “There is probably a bit more focus on it [getting rid of the ball] and the 360 element, or the spin element. That will be the one that will probably be hard to interpret at different points, whether someone is actually being tackled or just sort of held when they are spinning out, which does happen at times during games. We will see how that pans out,” he said.


    Bontempelli, officially reappointed as Bulldogs captain on Monday, said interpretations could differ between umpires. The brilliant Bulldogs’ swingman is a master of clearing the ball through the use of his strong torso and high-body handballs.

    “We probably had one or two examples out here the other week, where Bailey Dale or one or two of the boys, they [umpires] let it go unless it was a fully controlled tackle,” he said.

    “Each umpire will probably interpret it somewhat differently but it [being penalised] was only if you really got spun and couldn’t get rid of the ball. I think if your hands are free, I don’t think you’ll be able to go around a couple of times. But it seemed like there will be a bit of give and take.”

    Senior coaches Damien Hardwick, Brett Ratten and Chris Fagan were among those confused by the holding-the-ball interpretation last season when teams logged high-tackle counts but the free kicks were not as forthcoming as coaches had hoped.

    Coaches, players and supporters will get a clearer definition of what umpires are thinking when official practice matches begin this month, and then through the AAMI Community Series, leading into the home-and-away season, beginning in March.

    Among the AFL’s rule or interpretation changes, players also understand they need to have a greater duty of care towards each other in a year when the bump policy has been tightened around head-high contact.

    More suspensions are likely to be given if a player opts to bump rather than tackle and an opponent is hit in the head.

    Under rule changes made before Christmas, the potential to cause injury “must be factored” into impact grading by the match review officer, having previously required only “strong consideration” to the consequences of front-on contact or a high bump. This means that bumps are now less likely to be graded as low impact, thereby escaping suspension.

    “There has been a bit of a shift the last few years about avoiding the bump almost [on] every occasion you can because you are liable if you get head knocks,” he said.

    “We are always tinkering with things. It’s great to get the umpires out … and there is good back and forth. We are always learning and adapting to things.”

    The changes came after much agitation last year when Adelaide’s David Mackay was found not guilty of rough conduct over a collision with Hunter Clark which left the St Kilda player with a broken jaw in two places. Clark is still dealing with the fall-out of that clash.

    There were also confusing decisions last year, including when Geelong captain Joel Selwood was fined $3000 but escaped a ban for his late-season high bump on Greater Western Sydney defender Sam Taylor.

    Concussion remains a hot-button issue, with prominent lawyer Greg Griffin and player manager Peter Jess working towards a class action or launching individual cases against the AFL on behalf of players impacted post career by head knocks.
    FFC: Established 1883

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  8. #336
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    Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year

    Another grey area where the umps will end up making errors

    They won’t be rewarded’: AFL issues warning to clubs, players on high contact
    By Michael Gleeson

    The AFL has issued a warning to clubs, saying any player who ducks or shrugs into tackles will not win head-high free kicks and all players should stop using their heads to draw frees.

    After weeks of controversy around Collingwood’s Jack Ginnivan and whether he was being umpired differently, the AFL sent a reminder to all clubs, commentators and fans that the umpires have been told not to reward players who try to milk frees.
    The AFL has provided video examples from round 18 to clarify high tackles and how umpires have been instructed to officiate them.

    The league said any player who ducks, drops or shrugs into a tackle to draw high contact would be called to play on. Ginnivan has stopped being paid free kicks in recent weeks for high contact to which he contributes. Some other players, however, have been paid frees for similar incidents.

    The AFL said in round 18 umpires had wrongly paid a free kick to Melbourne’s Kysaiah Pickett for head-high contact when the Demons forward had raised his arm to force the tackle to go high. Play on should have been called.

    AFL umpires’ boss Dan Richardson said in the message to all clubs that while tacklers have a duty of care not to hit opponents high, the player being tackled also had a duty of care to themselves not to deliberately put their head at risk in trying to draw a free kick.

    Earlier this week, doctors told The Age that players who duck into tackles to attract free kicks must be “protected against themselves” and warned of the risk of neck injury, brain injury and concussion associated with the tactic.

    “We want to be clear, if the umpire believes the ball carrier is responsible for the high contact, then they won’t be rewarded,” Richardson said.

    “First and foremost, players attempting to win the ball must be protected and the onus of duty of care is on the tackler. However, having won the ball, the ball carrier has a duty of care to not put themselves in a position for high contact,” Richardson said.

    “Ultimately, the rules do not reward players for putting themselves in vulnerable positions to draw a free kick. This is something we prefer not to see in our game at any level.

    “Our umpires strive to get every decision right, every single time, however there are instances where, just like players, decisions are made at full speed at ground level without the benefit of slow-motion replay.

    “The health and safety of players is the primary concern of both the AFL and the clubs, and we will continue to work with clubs, their coaching panels, as well as players to ensure the safety of the game.”

    The AFL said the rules had been in place all year and the interpretation had not changed.

    Despite that, there appeared to have been a palpable shift in how umpires have approached such incidents in recent weeks.

    Ginnivan, who had been the lightning rod for the issue after being awarded the most head-high free kicks in the first part of the year, has stopped receiving such free kicks as frequently and play on is more often being called.

    The league issued a video explanation of three tackles from the last two rounds. One involving Ginnivan the AFL said was correctly called play on, as he lowered his body and raised his arm.

    Another involving Pickett looked from the umpires’ view to be a clear high-contact free but from another angle showed the umpire was mistaken in giving the free kick, as Pickett raised his arm to draw the free and play on should have been called.

    In another, Hawks defender James Blanck had prior opportunity to get rid of the bal then dropped into a tackle and was taken high. Having had prior opportunity and then ducking into the tackle he was correctly penalised for holding the ball.

    The AFL said the instructions to umpires are:

    • Where the tackle is reasonably applied, there is no prior opportunity and the ball carrier is responsible for the high contact via a shrug, drop or arm lift – play on should be called.
    • Where the tackle is reasonably applied, and there is prior opportunity, and the ball carrier is responsible for the high contact via a shrug, drop or arm lift – holding the ball should be called.
    • If a player has their head over the ball and trying to gain possession and contact is high, a free kick for high contact will be called.”
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  9. #337
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    Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year

    What should they do though? It’s complete BS when players push tackles high. I know McLean is a master of it but it sucks. The players actively make it harder on the umps.

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  11. #338
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    Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year

    So why can Selwood do this for 15 years and Channel Seven campaign the whole time to give him an OAM, but Ginnivan (and apparently only Ginnivan) does it for 5 minutes and now suddenly the entire rule is changed?
    - I'm a visionary - Only here to confirm my biases -

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  13. #339
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    Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year

    Now watch more and more higher and harder tackles as defenders now feel they've been given a green light to tackle high. If a player ducks are leans into a high tackle, the tackler knows, or guesses it won't be a free kick so it's carte blanche for maximum force to be applied. Every rule change has unintended consequences.

  14. #340
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    Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Days View Post
    So why can Selwood do this for 15 years and Channel Seven campaign the whole time to give him an OAM, but Ginnivan (and apparently only Ginnivan) does it for 5 minutes and now suddenly the entire rule is changed?
    So - the Selwood/Shuey show has gone on for long enough though hasn't it? I actually don't mind what has caused the change but I think what Ginnivan (and Pickett from what I saw in Alice Springs) is different as follows:

    - Selwood wins the footy and IF TACKLED drops his knees to try and draw a free. The tackler actually has a chance here as if they go low they will stick the tackle...you will notice in the last few years he hasn't been getting as many of these.

    - Ginnivan (and his apostles) seem to be taking the approach that drawing the kick IS the strategy - they ENGAGE the tackler (like a touch football player trying to draw offsides by running into the oppo) and - because they are 'in charge' of the contact, lift their elbow immediately forcing an arm up around the shoulder.

    I think what Selwood/Shuey have been doing is marginal but ultimately against the spirit of the law and they should not have been rewarded with free kicks. I think what Ginnivan has been doing is 100% against the spirit of the law and they should not be rewarded.

    As for the argument that he's being umpired differently, well...have you heard the story of the boy who cried wolf? No-one likes being made a fool of and the umpires are annoyed that they are being 'tricked' into awarding free kicks.

    The fact that Selwood 'got away with it' doesn't make what Ginnivan is doing right and this is the perfect example of a rule being instituted (like KB throwing the ball away to avoid being tackled, Hawks kicking points for the other team on purpose in order to retain possession) to avert a situation where a player/coach is 'exploiting' what is a 'hole' in the game that is against the spirit of the game.

    To compare this change to stupid changes to the games fabric like '6-6-6' or 'Stand' or the protected area or whatever...this isn't in the same ball park as those things. It is a rule telling players to compete 'straight up' rather than trying to manipulate an existing rule for their advantage...that isn't how games (are supposed) to work. Everyone is supposed to compete as hard as they can INSIDE the rules, not attempt to find weaknesses in them for their individual advantage. Play it straight up. He gets his hands on the footy - create some separation from your opponent and kick or handball the ball through the goals or too a team-mate.

    I actually can't understand how anyone sees this change as a bad thing.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

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  16. #341
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    Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year

    The onus should be on the tackler to make sure it doesn't slip high just like the onus in on the tackler to make sure the tackle doesn't slip below the knees.

    Simple.

    If I am able to run and a tackle trips me, I should get a free kick. If I am able to move my arms and the tackle slips high I should get a free kick.

    We want less congestion but we seem to do everything we can to cause more of it. Get tacklers going for the waist instead of the top of the arms and you get less balls pinned, and less congestion.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

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  18. #342
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    Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year

    It doesn't bother me. It never has. If the tackle goes high it's a bad tackle. If someone has found a way to work the system good for them.

    I honestly can't believe the hubbub over this.
    "It's over. It's all over."

  19. #343
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    Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year

    Ginnivan is such a soft target, as was McLean a few years ago. This scourge was created and trademarked by Selwood 15 years ago - everything that has happened since has been as a direct result of him. The new guys have added mayo to it, but it is essentially the same tactic that never existed prior to Selwood.

    Oh but he shrugs and he's so brave and a true champion of the game. Lol
    "Look at me mate. Look at me. I'm flyin'"

  20. #344
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    Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    The onus should be on the tackler to make sure it doesn't slip high just like the onus in on the tackler to make sure the tackle doesn't slip below the knees.

    Simple.

    If I am able to run and a tackle trips me, I should get a free kick. If I am able to move my arms and the tackle slips high I should get a free kick.

    We want less congestion but we seem to do everything we can to cause more of it. Get tacklers going for the waist instead of the top of the arms and you get less balls pinned, and less congestion.
    There's merit in your argument Jee, and I agree mainly however watching Pickett on the weekend he literally pushed the tackle high.
    Just dropped his weight at the first sign of contact and used his arm to push the tacklers arm to his neck.

    Not sure what the tackler could do there.

  21. #345
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    Re: Are You Sick Of The Afl Changing Rules Every Year

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    The onus should be on the tackler to make sure it doesn't slip high just like the onus in on the tackler to make sure the tackle doesn't slip below the knees.

    Simple.

    If I am able to run and a tackle trips me, I should get a free kick. If I am able to move my arms and the tackle slips high I should get a free kick.

    We want less congestion but we seem to do everything we can to cause more of it. Get tacklers going for the waist instead of the top of the arms and you get less balls pinned, and less congestion.
    Bevo in his presser agrees with you.
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