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  1. #31
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    Re: Former Bulldog Liam Picken launches legal action against AFL, club, doctors after concussions

    Quote Originally Posted by 1eyedog View Post
    Well you've provided some pretty good fuel for it right there.
    It’s all public knowledge. I could’ve kept going too. But the key point is it has nothing to do with Picken, and his circumstances. But the kind of BS some journos would argue is ‘indisputable truth’.
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

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  3. #32
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    Re: Former Bulldog Liam Picken launches legal action against AFL, club, doctors after concussions

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    How long do you think until the first media hit piece that references returning Clay Smith to the field for career ending knees, returning Treloar (against Aints) despite tightness costing him months in 2021, McLean re-doing his ACL in months, allowing Morris to play with a broken back, Tom Boyd’s early retirement, Dunkley doing his shoulder against GWS in 2021 in the last quarter when he looked done for the night with it (rent a headline…), let alone a long line of fragile bodies like Jong (allowed to play VFL with a fractured collarbone), Roughead, Stevens (now retired on concussions), Adams (out now with concussions) etc. and so on then comes out trying to allege we have a systemic and long standing issue of prematurely returning players to the field who shouldn’t have been? Ergo, this Picken allegation must be true, irrespective of the specific detail in Pickens writ.

    I give it a few days before certain journos smear our doctors. I’m sure the Essendon media folk want a scalp for their doctor losing his job (being the sort of vindictive sorts they are). I hope the club is ready to defend them immediately against this stuff. I bet it’s coming. Some rival newspapers/journos might see it as a chance to have a dig at one of a big newspaper generally that employs a certain son of one.
    Far out BT, that's quite a list (and a depressingly accurate one).

    I know players are compensated well for what they do, but boy oh boy are they bled to get it.
    "It's over. It's all over."

  4. #33
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    Re: Former Bulldog Liam Picken launches legal action against AFL, club, doctors after concussions

    Quote Originally Posted by EasternWest View Post
    Far out BT, that's quite a list (and a depressingly accurate one).

    I know players are compensated well for what they do, but boy oh boy are they bled to get it.
    Absolutely. At least Picken, Morris & Boyd have great 2016 memories. I really feel for blokes that went from injury to injury like Tom Williams or Jong. Footy is the working persons escape from work and the like, but these guys go through hell to provide it to the masses. That’s not even counting the endless surgeries just to stay in one piece. It’s a sobering reminder for the fans about what happens to our hero’s during their careers with us, but then also what lingers when they fade out of sight in retirement. Maybe just a quick moment to give thanks to everyone that’s pulled on our jumper.
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

  5. #34
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    Re: Former Bulldog Liam Picken launches legal action against AFL, club, doctors after concussions

    This has the potential to be the court based litmus test case the AFL have been avoiding for years. There has been others but nothing has ever played out in court, and this one probably will not either. The AFL, the club and the doctors all have the appropriate insurances, and as such most of the time the insurance underwriter ends up running the defense to the point of offering a compensation package should the case not look appropriately defensible.

    Needless to say this doesn't take away from Picko and what he has to go through on a daily basis with his health issues, which you wouldn't wish upon anyone. I hope that he is able to get what he needs to be able to get his life medially back on track.

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  7. #35
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    Re: Former Bulldog Liam Picken launches legal action against AFL, club, doctors after concussions

    I think the best guide to how teams treated concussion is John Kennedy's alleged quote, "Injuries above the shoulders don't count".

    Wishing Liam all the best for his action and the future. His uncompromising style of football brought so much pleasure to so many of us. He was ultimately just too brave for his own good.

    Surely there was some form of workers comp insurance in place when he played, given he was a contracted player ie. an employee. Or was that down to the individual to organise?
    The truth will set you free,
    but first it will piss you off. ... Gloria Steinem.

  8. #36
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    Re: Former Bulldog Liam Picken launches legal action against AFL, club, doctors after concussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanette54 View Post
    I think the best guide to how teams treated concussion is John Kennedy's alleged quote, "Injuries above the shoulders don't count".

    Wishing Liam all the best for his action and the future. His uncompromising style of football brought so much pleasure to so many of us. He was ultimately just too brave for his own good.

    Surely there was some form of workers comp insurance in place when he played, given he was a contracted player ie. an employee. Or was that down to the individual to organise?
    Workers comp could come into it for lost earnings & medical expenses, but it is limited. His recompense through courts if found in his favour is likely to be considerably higher.

  9. #37
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    Re: Former Bulldog Liam Picken launches legal action against AFL, club, doctors after concussions

    Quote Originally Posted by ReLoad View Post
    This has the potential to be the court based litmus test case the AFL have been avoiding for years. There has been others but nothing has ever played out in court, and this one probably will not either. The AFL, the club and the doctors all have the appropriate insurances, and as such most of the time the insurance underwriter ends up running the defense to the point of offering a compensation package should the case not look appropriately defensible.

    Needless to say this doesn't take away from Picko and what he has to go through on a daily basis with his health issues, which you wouldn't wish upon anyone. I hope that he is able to get what he needs to be able to get his life medially back on track.
    There is a class action against the AFL that has been put together which will be huge if successful.

    Full story click the heading

    AFL CONCUSSION CLASS ACTION COULD PUSH $1 BILLION IN COMPENSATION, FIRM HOPES
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  10. #38
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    Re: Former Bulldog Liam Picken launches legal action against AFL, club, doctors after concussions

    Picken embodied the courageous no flinching attack at the contest that the football community has celebrated for generations. We celebrated it. We promoted it. We loved people for it. We scolded people who pulled out.

    The football's community perception and approach towards that has to change. I think it has already started to shift.

  11. #39
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    Re: Former Bulldog Liam Picken launches legal action against AFL, club, doctors after concussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Hotel Foxtrot View Post
    This is very sad news.
    Liam is forever a Bulldog premiership hero, who should be enjoying his post football career and instead is faced with a debilitating chronic condition that appears to be severely impacting his quality of life.

    If the truth reveals we as a club have been negligent, or worse then I hope Liam is well compensated and more importantly the club puts in place measures that place health outcomes ahead of football outcomes.

    As Jeemak said, at best I hope the club followed established guidelines, but on the premise that Liam's legal team has gone out of their way to attach the club and specifically our medical team to the case, I suspect they've got some very specific claims.

    Al the best to Liam and his future health and ability to hopefully regain a measure of improved quality of life. That's the only outcome I'm interested in.
    The part that doesn’t make sense to me is that are not medical tests etc the property of the patient
    I understand that on medical issues there are a variety of opinions just like there are on footy issues but I struggle with this notion that results were withheld
    I guess we will have to see it play out but I can’t believe a patient would not be aware of the tests they took so what was withheld.? I am guessing it will come down to medical opinion not an actual withholding of information

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  13. #40
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    Re: Former Bulldog Liam Picken launches legal action against AFL, club, doctors after concussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Legend View Post
    The part that doesn’t make sense to me is that are not medical tests etc the property of the patient
    I understand that on medical issues there are a variety of opinions just like there are on footy issues but I struggle with this notion that results were withheld
    I guess we will have to see it play out but I can’t believe a patient would not be aware of the tests they took so what was withheld.? I am guessing it will come down to medical opinion not an actual withholding of information
    The players may sign a waver, or forego rights to ownership in lieu of the club funding the tests. A bit like a pre-employment medical test, the results often go to the prospective employer as that's what's been agreed by the applicant.

    Now if that's the case and the doctors told Liam his results were fine and he's good to go, perhaps Liam didn't feel the need to ask any further questions.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

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  15. #41
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    Re: Former Bulldog Liam Picken launches legal action against AFL, club, doctors after concussions

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    The players may sign a waver, or forego rights to ownership in lieu of the club funding the tests. A bit like a pre-employment medical test, the results often go to the prospective employer as that's what's been agreed by the applicant.

    Now if that's the case and the doctors told Liam his results were fine and he's good to go, perhaps Liam didn't feel the need to ask any further questions.
    I could be wrong but I don’t think you can legally sign away your rights to medical records
    Either way the doctors have insurance and so would the club and AFL
    i reckon there is more here than what is currently public I just can’t imagine any doctor deliberately putting someone at serious risk. I can understand different medical opinions but not a deliberate conscious decision to put someone at risk of serious harm

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  17. #42
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    Re: Former Bulldog Liam Picken launches legal action against AFL, club, doctors after concussions

    I wonder if that’s part of the way concussion tests are run? Players don’t get to know their baseline so they can’t manipulate future results to get back on the field / training when they aren’t ready.

    On face value it seems odd that a test isn’t available but I don’t know enough about it. Just a musing.

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