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View Poll Results: Should a coaching change be made?

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  • No, lets stick with Bevo and wait

    23 38.33%
  • No, but lets prepare some options

    19 31.67%
  • Maybe by mid season

    5 8.33%
  • Yes, lets do it sooner than later and control our destiny

    5 8.33%
  • Yes, but we should wait until we start canvassing options

    2 3.33%
  • Support Bevo unconditionally

    6 10.00%
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  1. #1
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    Luke Beveridge and our challenges

    Despite a new contract due to two less than impressive results there is a lot of noise about getting rid of our premiership coach Luke Beveridge.
    From my perspective that rarely plays out well for clubs to sack a coach mid season but particularly more about doing it so early in the season.
    I'm inclined to believe the best option is to back all the planning that went into the season from the coaches, sports science guys and the executive teams and reassess if we get into a position where we can't make the finals.
    Ironically if a club was to make a coaching change this might be the year to do it with only Hinkley, Simpson and now Bevo under the microscope so there might not be a need to rush it.

    So lets hear your thoughts on what the club should do with Bevo and if/when a coaching change should be made?
    I have attached a poll but feel free to suggest other options.

    Lets try and have a good discussion with some facts or observations to support your position.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

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  3. #2
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    Re: Luke Beveridge and our challenges

    I think we certainly should start looking at a future coach. I think it's time to move on.

    However getting rid of him now would be ludicrous. It's only round 2 and the man deserves more than that. I also think caretaker roles never serve much of a purpose.

    There is still time to turn this around somewhat. And by that i mean get to 10th-12th rather than bottom of the ladder. If we're 0-6 we've got a free hit at trying out whatever we want.

    I don't know whats going on down at the club but a number of our issues have been there for a while now and the guy in charge of it all has to take the fall for it. But I'm happy for him to see out the season as this one is already lost.

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  5. #3
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    Re: Luke Beveridge and our challenges

    I don't think there is a senior coach who is a more public face of their club than Bevo has been thrust into being for the last few years. Great leadership comes from the top of any organisation and we have had a passive, uninvested, invisible leader who prioritses her corporate role - every single club president is busy and successful outside the club but there is no excuse for the near complete lack of visibility, lack of passion and public support for the club. Added to that, we also have a very low profile CEO and head of footy dept, so even more responsibility has been heaped onto Bevo. And as frustrating as he can sometimes be with his stubbornness in his coaching methods, any future failure cannot be sheeted home to him alone.
    "Look at me mate. Look at me. I'm flyin'"

  6. #4
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    Re: Luke Beveridge and our challenges

    I've gone from being a huge supporter of Bevo in the early years, having met him and been involved in a few club meetings, to questioning him, to wanting him out, to now.

    Where is now? I think he's clearly in strife but I wouldn't sack him now, unless things are imploding from the inside in terms of player-coach relationships.

    What would we gain from sacking him now? Supporter satisfaction, maybe. But it's not like we're going to appoint the next senior coach in-season and catapult to contending. The only thing sacking him now achieves is possibly further unrest amongst the players who actually support him.

    Just as there was no rush in re-signing him (dumb move), there should be no rush in sacking him (unless as I stated above, there's a lot more to it than just on field performance). However, let's be frank - things change quickly. Another couple of heavy losses and it's full crisis mode.

    I fully believe we need a rebuild and that this isn't just 2 weeks. This is a body of work of 12+ months.

    The questions I'd be asking are not just Bevo focused, but whole-of-club;

    - What if our list actually isn't THAT good?
    - What if we need a rebuild, is Bevo capable of it? Is he deserving?
    - Is Peter Gordon still around? Is someone else more capable than the invisible KWW?
    - Is Chris Grant worthy of keeping his position?
    - Why are we so light on in our coaching ranks compared to other clubs?
    - Why is our injury list so bad each year? Is it bad luck or bad management?
    - Are we fit enough?

    And so on.

    Ultimately I think the club needs to carefully navigate through this. Sacking Bevo too early might appease a frustrated supporter base but cause more harm internally, but there also comes a time where if he has zero influence on the group, change has to happen.

    Interesting times.
    W00F!

  7. #5
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    Re: Luke Beveridge and our challenges

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogsthru&thru View Post
    ...this one is already lost.
    I love you mate but I just can't understand this mentality.

    Honestly? 0-2, coming off a loss against a team who 'on paper' we "shoulda" beaten? Do you get ANY better opportunities in life than the one our players have right now? In what other profession to you get a 'do over' 6-days after a failure and have the chance to set things right? Where else to you get the chance to say "this ain't the end...it's just the beginning" and run out there with your mates and smash the hell out of the Lions?

    The season is lost? There are a TONNE of games to go. After 4 rounds in 1997 Adelaide were 1-3 and coming off a defeat to Port Adelaide - who were literally JUST STARTING in the comp. Malcolm Blight - clearly on the lunatic fringe of coaches - simply wrote the number '18' on the white board in his review as in, '18 games to GO'.

    This is an opportunity to do something GREAT. Just like being 2-0 *SHOULD* be seen as a chance to go undefeated, 0-2 (and in pretty poor form) is ALSO an opportunity. Let's get after it.

    It's a brutal comp. What are we gonna do? Just say it's a snake-bitten season and give up? Stuff that. Let's roll.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  8. #6
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    Re: Luke Beveridge and our challenges

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    I love you mate but I just can't understand this mentality.

    Honestly? 0-2, coming off a loss against a team who 'on paper' we "shoulda" beaten? Do you get ANY better opportunities in life than the one our players have right now? In what other profession to you get a 'do over' 6-days after a failure and have the chance to set things right? Where else to you get the chance to say "this ain't the end...it's just the beginning" and run out there with your mates and smash the hell out of the Lions?

    The season is lost? There are a TONNE of games to go. After 4 rounds in 1997 Adelaide were 1-3 and coming off a defeat to Port Adelaide - who were literally JUST STARTING in the comp. Malcolm Blight - clearly on the lunatic fringe of coaches - simply wrote the number '18' on the white board in his review as in, '18 games to GO'.

    This is an opportunity to do something GREAT. Just like being 2-0 *SHOULD* be seen as a chance to go undefeated, 0-2 (and in pretty poor form) is ALSO an opportunity. Let's get after it.

    It's a brutal comp. What are we gonna do? Just say it's a snake-bitten season and give up? Stuff that. Let's roll.
    OK let me clarify. Of course 0-2 doesn't mean our season is done. However, I have next to ZERO faith in this group. They have failed to deliver on too many occasions when the going gets tough. They can't be trusted to consistently provided the required effort. I'm not saying the club should be acting like the season is done, it's just purely my opinion. It's also why I said it'd be ludicrous to sack Bevo right now. But that attitude you're talking about is just something that seems so foreign to this group. I saw English joking around with Cordy 30sec after the final siren. I mean for gods sake I'd be utterly embarrassed and pissed off after such an effort. Anyway this is more about trust than anything else. The consistency of this group to be inconsistent. The conditional running. Not doing it for the jumper. Not doing it for each other. They get our hopes up for 10min only to squash it in 5.

    I love your optimism and can do attitude. Perhaps you could do a talk to the players.

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  10. #7
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    Re: Luke Beveridge and our challenges

    Quote Originally Posted by Sedat View Post
    I don't think there is a senior coach who is a more public face of their club than Bevo has been thrust into being for the last few years. Great leadership comes from the top of any organisation and we have had a passive, uninvested, invisible leader who prioritses her corporate role - every single club president is busy and successful outside the club but there is no excuse for the near complete lack of visibility, lack of passion and public support for the club. Added to that, we also have a very low profile CEO and head of footy dept, so even more responsibility has been heaped onto Bevo. And as frustrating as he can sometimes be with his stubbornness in his coaching methods, any future failure cannot be sheeted home to him alone.
    Spot on. I mentioned in another thread surely someone other than Luke must front the media or grab a radio spot to talk about our start to the season.
    More of an In Bruges guy?

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  12. #8
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    Re: Luke Beveridge and our challenges

    I think he needs to go ASAP. The longer this goes on the worse it is going to get for both the club and him. There is no change at all from last season, we're the same team, same attitude, same game plan (Or no plan whichever way you look at it) with a couple of different faces running around. We still have the same issues and to the uneducated eye from the stands don't appear to have worked on any weaknesses at all. I also think that whoever's decision to extend his contract needs to be shown the door as well. Baines? Grant? Who ever the decision makers are made a poor call and need to be held accountable.

    I just don't know how we can do this though. I have no idea on the financial implications in sacking him with almost 2 full years on the deal. Lade, I'd assume would take over until we finalise something. Not sure how I feel about that either.

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  14. #9
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    Re: Luke Beveridge and our challenges

    Quote Originally Posted by Sedat View Post
    I don't think there is a senior coach who is a more public face of their club than Bevo has been thrust into being for the last few years. Great leadership comes from the top of any organisation and we have had a passive, uninvested, invisible leader who prioritses her corporate role - every single club president is busy and successful outside the club but there is no excuse for the near complete lack of visibility, lack of passion and public support for the club. Added to that, we also have a very low profile CEO and head of footy dept, so even more responsibility has been heaped onto Bevo. And as frustrating as he can sometimes be with his stubbornness in his coaching methods, any future failure cannot be sheeted home to him alone.
    Excellent post Sedat.

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  16. #10
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    Re: Luke Beveridge and our challenges

    I'm not over reacting at 0-2 - I know its been a horrible start

    But most teams who sack the coach get an uptick for about 2-4 weeks before descending into a season of chaos

    We've just re contracted Beveridge so we obviously have some belief - for me that doesn't necessarily change after a fortnight. Sometimes when things go wrong you have to back in your coach, if you think they are the right person and can learn from results and adapt, and extract new things from the group.

    The questions about the list have to be asked - did we need all of Crozier, McLean, Baker, JJ, McComb, RSmith, Scott and Hannan - shouldnt we have been cutting a bit harder to add kids with speed to play pockets/flanks etc

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  18. #11
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    Re: Luke Beveridge and our challenges

    I've been reading a lot of commentary on this excellent forum and the other, bad forum, as well as trying to take in what the media is saying, and I have to say I just don't know what the club should do, and I don't know what Bevo has left in the tank.

    I am as guilty of a R1 premiership or wooden spoon as anyone (I'm still a new supporter really and still getting used to the way football goes), and I think mjp is right to stay bullish, but there are a few things I can't escape:

    1) We look slow
    2) We look confused
    3) we're both boring and frustrating to watch

    I think #1 could be fitness, or it it could be motivation, or it could be fear. #2 could be motivation, or it could be poor understanding of the game plan, or a lack of trust.

    I can see why people immediately leap to blame Bevo for #1 and #2. It's tempting to reach for one cause for all your woes. I can also see why people think we should ditch him sooner rather than later - an immediate response is always more satisfying than a delayed one.

    #3 is the real killer, because it's what makes me dread the footy each week. I'll always be a bulldogs supporter, but in times like this I do pick a 'second team' to barrack for (usually the Swans, though sometimes the Pies or Tiges) just to keep my interest in the sport high. But I don't want to leap to conclusions when there's so much I don't know and therefore I don't know what the fix is.

    I've seen a few articles of faith touted about the team over the last year or so about our coaching/gameplan/training:
    - We don't have the right assistants
    - We have too many Footscray mature-age utilities
    - Bevo has too much control/has lost the playing group
    - We don't have a plan B
    - We aren't fit enough
    - We don't have enough 'mongrel'
    - We should stop playing a zone defence

    While I've found myself agreeing with many of them, I think a lot of these are arguments that start with the assumption the coaching or leadership is bad, so I'm torn on the degree to which they are evidence for the coaching being bad - there's maybe a little bit of circular reasoning in there. I doubt it's the players, but it might be a third factor (or a third factor plus a fourth factor) that we aren't considering because we don't know.

    So I think this is where I get to:
    - To safeguard my feelings I'll probably not force myself to sit through, or go to, games, at least until we get a it better or things become a little clearer. It might make me a bad supporter but I've got a few other things on lol
    - There was a shift after R1 in the club's injury reporting - they packed Lobb off for surgery and Cody's return disappeared into the distance. One way to think about this is that they aren't taking risks they might have taken had we been playing well. Which means maybe they are shifting their thinking about this year, treating it as a development year for the new list and new gameplan. If this is the case, then you'd expect things to quite suddenly come good over a few weeks, possibly around the return of a few key players. That might be too late to save our season, but it might not be - and it might solve problem #3.
    - If Bevo does go, I actually do hope it's managed at the end of the season. Mid-season coach changes don't seem to go well.

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  20. #12
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    Re: Luke Beveridge and our challenges

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Revolution View Post
    I'm not over reacting at 0-2 - I know its been a horrible start

    But most teams who sack the coach get an uptick for about 2-4 weeks before descending into a season of chaos

    We've just re contracted Beveridge so we obviously have some belief
    - for me that doesn't necessarily change after a fortnight. Sometimes when things go wrong you have to back in your coach, if you think they are the right person and can learn from results and adapt, and extract new things from the group.

    The questions about the list have to be asked - did we need all of Crozier, McLean, Baker, JJ, McComb, RSmith, Scott and Hannan - shouldnt we have been cutting a bit harder to add kids with speed to play pockets/flanks etc
    Agree. WE HAVE JUST RECONTRACTED BEVO to the end of 2025. My capitals means I am shouting it. I am in the camp of supporting
    Bevo unconditionally. I remember Peter Gordon saying years later what a huge mistake he made by sacking Terry Wheeler after 2 games. He always regretted it. Bevo has done a fantastic job for us. Our best coach ever and some want to sack him after 2 games. I have faith that the whole club will turn this around.Let's support the club instead of bagging it.

  21. #13
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    Re: Luke Beveridge and our challenges

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogsthru&thru View Post
    OK let me clarify. Of course 0-2 doesn't mean our season is done. However, I have next to ZERO faith in this group. They have failed to deliver on too many occasions when the going gets tough. They can't be trusted to consistently provided the required effort. I'm not saying the club should be acting like the season is done, it's just purely my opinion. It's also why I said it'd be ludicrous to sack Bevo right now. But that attitude you're talking about is just something that seems so foreign to this group. I saw English joking around with Cordy 30sec after the final siren. I mean for gods sake I'd be utterly embarrassed and pissed off after such an effort. Anyway this is more about trust than anything else. The consistency of this group to be inconsistent. The conditional running. Not doing it for the jumper. Not doing it for each other. They get our hopes up for 10min only to squash it in 5.

    I love your optimism and can do attitude. Perhaps you could do a talk to the players.
    English is one of our few performers, he can get away with it.
    If it was Macrae or Crozier or Daniel on the other hand...
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

  22. #14
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    Re: Luke Beveridge and our challenges

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Revolution View Post

    The questions about the list have to be asked - did we need all of Crozier, McLean, Baker, JJ, McComb, RSmith, Scott and Hannan - shouldnt we have been cutting a bit harder to add kids with speed to play pockets/flanks etc
    Rightly or wrongly all of these players contracts are up at years end. We have always been too conservative with our list management and turning the list over.
    More of an In Bruges guy?

  23. #15
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    Re: Luke Beveridge and our challenges

    Quote Originally Posted by Boots View Post
    - There was a shift after R1 in the club's injury reporting - they packed Lobb off for surgery and Cody's return disappeared into the distance. One way to think about this is that they aren't taking risks they might have taken had we been playing well.
    Yeah, well...none of US knew about the Lobb injury until after the Dee's game. Which makes me wonder if maybe those on the inside DID have a suspicion about how things *might* go and were therefore trying to get every single 'asset' out on the field in an effort to get off to a positive start. Of course the 'Where does that leave us now?" question needs to be asked but...

    Anyway, we can continue to make changes etc but the result on Saturday almost calls for a 'Same 22 - you made the mess, get out there and fix it' type of response...
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

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