Luke Beveridge and our challenges

[mjp]

There won't be a need for a coach if we drop 15 games from here by an average margin of 80 points because I would have already burnt Whitten Oval down to the ground.

You might have to burn Skinner Reserve down as well!

No idea why but your comment reminded me of the scene in Bull Durham where the girl 'caught' with Tim Robbins in the locker room informs the manager that he can't ban her from the Ball Park on the basis that her Daddy had donated the new scoreboard. To which the manager replied - "What do we need a scoreboard for - we haven't scored any runs all season"....

Let's hope after Thursday night there is no need for any drastic action such as that you have suggested.

[1eyedog]

You might have to burn Skinner Reserve down as well!

No idea why but your comment reminded me of the scene in Bull Durham where the girl 'caught' with Tim Robbins in the locker room informs the manager that he can't ban her from the Ball Park on the basis that her Daddy had donated the new scoreboard. To which the manager replied - "What do we need a scoreboard for - we haven't scored any runs all season"....

Let's hope after Thursday night there is no need for any drastic action such as that you have suggested.

Gary would be out roaming the streets if I did that!

[Bulldog Joe]

We are in a results business and the results are not supportive of retaining Bevo.

I now fully expect as to be 0-6, with the most winnable game having been lost.

We have issues around defence, offence, work rate and game plan. Aren't these areas within the responsibility of the coach.

If we ignore the 2021 season the issues have been there since 2017 and even in 2021 we blew a chance at the flag because we had some weeks of putrid displays that cost us a top 4 spot and an easier path to the GF.

Beveridge was responsible for all of that.

He has a chance to address and show some improvement, but if we continue like we were last week he should be gone by mid-season.

[mjp]

Beveridge was responsible for all of that.

If you're blamed for the bad then you need to receive credit for the good.

I have quoted Bulldog Joe here but the following isn't really directed at him...I genuinely have no horse in this race right now. I think Bevo has been amazing throughout (and I believe the poor start to 2023 CAN be quickly turned around) however I just get the feeling that since the 2021 GF things haven't quite been 'right' and his relationship with the members/supporters is primarily what i am referring too...Personally I don't think our list is that great and I think the decision to recruit Lobb (in particular) and Jones at the end of last season was poor. I have been pretty consistent on that and my reasons (they are old and will most likely be injury prone - exactly like the Stef Martin decision) and Lobb plays a position where we already have a surplus of players...anyway...enough of that - Bevo was no doubt part of the decision making and therefore HE needs to make it work. But as a supporter group, no doubt the majority opinion is that we are under performing and the continual use of 'stupid' tactics (outside 5, zone defense) is a major reason for this.

I see a heap of fair points being made about no top 4 etc but when you do that you need to give credit for still making the grand final...I know it's all emotional - I get it - but I would like to remind everyone that however you feel Bevo did not break into your house and steal from your family...he is actually trying his best.

Be for him or against him but blaming him for the bad without acknowledging some of the achievements just doesn't seem fair to me.

[Rocco Jones]

Be for him or against him but blaming him for the bad without acknowledging some of the achievements just doesn't seem fair to me.

It's funny the blame he has received throughout. Part of it is his time has come with such highs and lows. Say we swapped 2017-18 and put them at start. 2021 was more a build than highs and lows. Same performances but staggered differently, the appreciation would be a lot higher.

I am in the camp that thinks he is probably done but definitely should be given more time (unless he has completely 'lost' the players but we aren't to know and that's the case anytime. You can be coming off a flag but if you deeply upset the majority of squad, you are probably cooked).

Remarkable how much of his time has involved our fans being upset at him in one way or another. Coming off Blackotber, 2014:
- 6/8 years in finals
- 2 Grand Finals
- 1 Premiership

This is a great reign for any club, let alone one with our, let's say success starved, history.

[Bulldog Joe]

It's funny the blame he has received throughout. Part of it is his time has come with such highs and lows. Say we swapped 2017-18 and put them at start. 2021 was more a build than highs and lows. Same performances but staggered differently, the appreciation would be a lot higher.

I am in the camp that thinks he is probably done but definitely should be given more time (unless he has completely 'lost' the players but we aren't to know and that's the case anytime. You can be coming off a flag but if you deeply upset the majority of squad, you are probably cooked).

Remarkable how much of his time has involved our fans being upset at him in one way or another. Coming off Blackotber, 2014:
- 6/8 years in finals
- 2 Grand Finals
- 1 Premiership

This is a great reign for any club, let alone one with our, let's say success starved, history.

This success starved mentality is something I have a real issue with.

Why can't we aspire and achieve continued success.

When Brendan Gale became the CEO at Richmond he gave an aim to have 100K members and 3 flags in 10 years for a club that had been a basket case for about 30 years.

He aspired and ACHIEVED.

We need to do that.

[bornadog]

This success starved mentality is something I have a real issue with.

Why can't we aspire and achieve continued success.

When Brendan Gale became the CEO at Richmond he gave an aim to have 100K members and 3 flags in 10 years for a club that had been a basket case for about 30 years.

He aspired and ACHIEVED.

We need to do that.

Nothing wrong with the aspirations. What Richmond achieved is rare.

I know Geelong hasn't won too many flags, but they are a top 4 team almost every year and give themselves a chance to get more premierships. We need to be like them at minimum.

[Rocco Jones]

This success starved mentality is something I have a real issue with.

Why can't we aspire and achieve continued success.

When Brendan Gale became the CEO at Richmond he gave an aim to have 100K members and 3 flags in 10 years for a club that had been a basket case for about 30 years.

He aspired and ACHIEVED.

We need to do that.

Oh I agree. It shouldn't change our expectations. I am saying I'd have thought we would appreciate his reign more in general.

If I was told in October, 2021, our next 8 seasons would equal 6 finals appearances, two grand finals and 1 flag, I would have thought Bevo would be seen a god by our fans. Not really having a go at the fans or defending Bevo as such, just amazing the durations in which our fans have been highly critical of him. Speaks to the highs and lows we've had with him. Like two grand finals, 6 finals and NEVER a top four finish.

[bornadog]

Oh I agree. It shouldn't change our expectations. I am saying I'd have thought we would appreciate his reign more in general.

If I was told in October, 2021, our next 8 seasons would equal 6 finals appearances, two grand finals and 1 flag, I would have thought Bevo would be seen a god by our fans. Not really having a go at the fans or defending Bevo as such, just amazing the durations in which our fans have been highly critical of him. Speaks to the highs and lows we've had with him. Like two grand finals, 6 finals and NEVER a top four finish.

October 2021? or 2014?

Listening to his press conference moments ago, a reporter asked him about the flack he has been receiving and this would be the first time. He said he copped a lot of abuse in 2017/18 and even 19.

As MJP said, you have to acknowledge the good as well as the bad.

[mjp]

This success starved mentality is something I have a real issue with.

But we are success starved...isn't that just stating a fact?

Our history is that we are the best side outside of the finals...every year...with an occasional burst up or down the ladder.

Our history to to nurture champion players who finish their careers at other clubs.

Our history is that we are a club of great effort but low means.

We need to aspire for more in all areas and you would have to say in the Bevo 'era' whilst we haven't hit the heights of the Tiges (or Hawks of the mid-2000's) we have been pretty good...but it will take DECADES of similar performances to shake off 100 years of history.

In order to learn from history the first step is to acknowledge it...case in point - A great man once said that you are never finished as a footballer until you are recruited to play full-forward for Footscray. Rory Lobb - is that your music??

As for Brendan Gale - well, you could put his plans side by side with Carlton's 5-year plan from 2010...not everyone recruits Dusty Martin and (by the skin of their teeth) decides to retain an under the pump Damien Hardwick as coach at the end of 2016. Forks in the road. Are we at one? Well, only a history lesson conducted somewhere around 2027 will be able to tell us the answer to that!

[SonofScray]

Oh I agree. It shouldn't change our expectations. I am saying I'd have thought we would appreciate his reign more in general.

If I was told in October, 2021, our next 8 seasons would equal 6 finals appearances, two grand finals and 1 flag, I would have thought Bevo would be seen a god by our fans. Not really having a go at the fans or defending Bevo as such, just amazing the durations in which our fans have been highly critical of him. Speaks to the highs and lows we've had with him. Like two grand finals, 6 finals and NEVER a top four finish.

He has been seen and treated like a God. Not just by fans, but within the Club too. Fair enough too in some ways, we've played some absolutely perfect football under him, the only better football I've seen than us at our best, is what the Demons did after 1/2 time in the GF.

This conversation about his tenure was probably strongest, until now, in 2018 and briefly in 2020. Even then though, you couldn't even raise the concerns on different platforms without getting absolutely lambasted by the faithful. Its been a source of great amusement to some folk I know that just cannot conceive how I could be unhappy with the coach, after all he is a master motivator, a psychological mastermind and took us to the Promised Land.

That those folk are now open to the conversation feels really telling to me. I'm prepared to accept that I went very early, but there is a risk in waiting until the horse has bolted too.

[Jeanette54]

Seriously, reading some of these angst-ridden comments I thought I had inadvertently got into Bomber Blitz.

[Mantis]

Seriously, reading some of these angst-ridden comments I thought I had inadvertently got into Bomber Blitz.

Are you serious?

Besides one comment about the president all I see in this thread is posters offering up their opinions on the situation the club finds itself in after we could only be described as a horrendous start to the season.

Posters have added reasoning to their views which is all we can ask for on a public forum.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Bevo's reign has been very unique and it's why the opinions on this thread are so divided.

Sure, 6/8 seasons playing finals including 2 grand finals and 1 flag is a great result. We'd all have taken that on January 1 2015.

But we can also hope for more. And with the list we had in 2015, you'd be hard to argue that we shouldn't have had more established success like Geelong, Richmond and Sydney had in their drought breaking flags. It's also been tough to see the same issues present themselves over the years during the reign.

2 seasons without finals immediately following a flag wasn't great. Absolutely capitulating in 35 minutes of a grand final wasn't great. Being belted by the giants in 2019 wasn't great. Losing to the crappy saints in 2020 wasn't great. Capitulating again against freo in 2022 wasn't great. Falling out of the top 4 in 2021 wasn't great. These have been some historic collapses over a number of years. So yes, we've had great success. But we've also had great failures during Bevo's reign.

[SonofScray]

Just listened to Bevo's press conference. A few observations and comments.

He has presented himself well under some pressure, thought he offered a good perspective on how he is managing and perceiving his role in this bad patch of form. Can't fault him on that front, he is very consistent there. Always backs himself and the staff and the players in.

He made a comment along the lines of being very surprised at the form, given expectations are high and indicators in the preseason suggested we be up and about. The level of surprise I think is interesting, he and the coaching group seem to be caught off guard there.

Rejects the notion that our approach to fitness or this preseason specifically has been botched. Noted that variations can occur week to week with availability. I wasn't so convinced here.

Recognises that folk are "up in arms" and that he is under some scrutiny again, as he was in 2017 through 2019.

In all, he presented himself well, gave me some confidence in his own assessments of things and will back himself in. The margin for error is incredibly slim though, and I feel like he knows it too.