Early Trade Rumours 2023

[bornadog]

But the point being made is that it didn't work that well. That's also not on WOOF and Bulldog members because they wanted the role to be addressed.

How did you rate Lobb's performance this year?

Wasn't a brilliant year, but he played the second ruck role as expected.

[bornadog]

We are only draft focus this year because no of notes wants to come to us.

To get any one of note, you have to use up first round draft picks. Would you be happy with that, or would you prefer a young draft pick - we are aiming for pick 4.

[JanLorMill]

To get any one of note, you have to use up first round draft picks. Would you be happy with that, or would you prefer a young draft pick - we are aiming for pick 4.

Free agents don’t cost 1st rounders. Not all good players cost first rounders anyway.

[JanLorMill]

Wasn't a brilliant year, but he played the second ruck role as expected.

Gesz that’s understating it. He got dropped and really only play 1 good game, the last meaningless one.

[bornadog]

Gesz that’s understating it. He got dropped and really only play 1 good game, the last meaningless one.

He filled the role of second ruck which is what he was brought into. Agree could have done more when not rucking.

[Sedat]

We recruited Lobb for the second ruck/fwd role. This board and many supporters have for years whinged about Dunkley, Hannan, Bont etc being second rucks.

Please don't come back at me with Sweet/Tim, because Tim has proven he is First ruck with his AA, and Sweet has no hope of being a second ruck/fwd.

How is the bolded bit relevant at all to actual team success? The only team "success" we've had since Tim was prematurely thrust into the 1st ruck role at the start of 2019 (at great cost as previously documented in several key games including finals from 2019-2022) was the first 6 weeks of 2021 when we had a very different type of player as no 1 ruck (Martin) with Tim causing havoc as 2nd ruck/forward. That team "success'' was replicated again in the PF and first 2.5 qtrs of the GF same season, with the exact same personnel/ruck set-up.

Bringing in Lobb as 2nd ruck/forward and Tim elevating his game to AA ruckman in 2023 has actually seen us go backwards from the previous year (obviously not directly Tim's fault), and the previous year was very poor and under-performing compared to the largely excellent season before that - it's concerning pattern to say the least, especially as the age/experience profile is going in the opposite direction. All we should care about is how THE TEAM will get better in 2024 so we can actually contend for another premiership, an expectation directly in line with our own internal metrics. If English having a banner year and Lobb coming in has seen us go backwards (not to mention Liam Jones having an outstanding year as key defender, Bont/Libba/Treloar having elite seasons in the middle), what personnel/tactical changes do we need to do/make to get much better and quickly (not to mention sustaining this level for the next few seasons like a Geelong/Sydney/Collingwood have been able to do for much of the last 10-12 years)?

[Rocket Science]

We surely haven't reweighed keeping a bloke we won't play because our other targets have rebuffed us, have we?

At this rate we'll be asking Smithy, Varcoe and Robbie McComb back.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

The posts on this forum just shows how little faith supporters have in the club at present (and rightly so). Morale is very very low.

What do we want to see this off-season to restore the faith somewhat?

[Sedat]

What do we want to see this off-season to restore the faith somewhat?

Real change and not simply change to tick a mandatory box. We've had 2 years of significant failure against high internal expectations, so there is absolutely no excuse for the entire organization to resist making immediate real and impactful changes:

1. Different voices/perspectives in our coaching group
2. Different methods/perspectives on fitness & conditioning
3. Different game plan/focus on cutting edge and how to best maximise our great strengths
4. Laser focus for the senior coach on match day planning/pre-season prep - less media/off-field responsibilities
5. Creative list management solutions to improve the quality on our list and balancing out the spread in areas of weakness
6. Players to adhere to strict guidelines on game plan and their specific role in team success
7. Less ego/tail wagging the dog from playing group, but bring them along for the journey and articulate why they need to change/adapt
8. Less talk full stop from playing group and coaching group. Outline expectations and quietly work every day towards them
9. Far more engaged and visible senior management - unacceptable to keep sending Bevo to the media wolves
10. More fun and levity - embrace the challenge to get better and do it while having fun

[mjp]

What do we want to see this off-season to restore the faith somewhat?

I guess I still have faith but nothing that happens before the start of the season is going to impress me much.

All the talk in the world - and the Bailey Smith article included some good stuff - really doesn't mean much right now. I think most of us just lack belief that when the chips are down - and I'm talking on the field - the players will fight through it and 'something' seems broken.

I look at last off-season. We had two primary targets in our recruiting: Get Lobb and Get Jones. We got 'em. It ultimately mattered for absolute zero. We had good draft picks and OPTIONS for the first time in 2 years - 13, 24 and 39...it mattered for ZERO as none of them played. At. All. We added a new senior assistant coach to our coaching panel...none of the coaching 'stuff' that many supporters are upset about (game-day fade-outs, selection integrity) seemed to change in any way...

No doubt we all want to see 'something' but I think the trust between club and supporters is pretty low right now. We all see talented players on the field...but, well, that's where it stops.

[bornadog]

How is the bolded bit relevant at all to actual team success? The only team "success" we've had since Tim was prematurely thrust into the 1st ruck role at the start of 2019 (at great cost as previously documented in several key games including finals from 2019-2022) was the first 6 weeks of 2021 when we had a very different type of player as no 1 ruck (Martin) with Tim causing havoc as 2nd ruck/forward. That team "success'' was replicated again in the PF and first 2.5 qtrs of the GF same season, with the exact same personnel/ruck set-up.

Bringing in Lobb as 2nd ruck/forward and Tim elevating his game to AA ruckman in 2023 has actually seen us go backwards from the previous year (obviously not directly Tim's fault), and the previous year was very poor and under-performing compared to the largely excellent season before that - it's concerning pattern to say the least, especially as the age/experience profile is going in the opposite direction. All we should care about is how THE TEAM will get better in 2024 so we can actually contend for another premiership, an expectation directly in line with our own internal metrics. If English having a banner year and Lobb coming in has seen us go backwards (not to mention Liam Jones having an outstanding year as key defender, Bont/Libba/Treloar having elite seasons in the middle), what personnel/tactical changes do we need to do/make to get much better and quickly (not to mention sustaining this level for the next few seasons like a Geelong/Sydney/Collingwood have been able to do for much of the last 10-12 years)?

Can I ask, did you follow the discussion from #1180 ? because it seems like you didn't - BTW: I don't disagree with your points put forward.

In Summary, it was a discussion on Lobb and whether it was an error in recruiting him.

[LifeLongBulldog]

I have heard we may be interested in Elijah Hollands from the Gold Coast Suns. Does anyone know if there is any truth to the rumour? I remember reading a couple of months ago that Sam Power was seen watching a Collingwood vs Gold Coast VFL match. I watched the VFL grand final on the weekend, and I was impressed with his disposal usage. I almost thought he could have been best on ground. I think he fits what our team needs currently extremely well e.g. young winger that can use the ball well. I am just a bit concerned about his defensive efforts e.g tackling ability. However, I have also seen that Cartlon may be interested as well but I thought that may of been due to the brother connection with Oli Hollands. Any thoughts to this rumour?

[bulldogtragic]

I have heard we may be interested in Elijah Hollands from the Gold Coast Suns. Does anyone know if there is any truth to the rumour? I remember reading a couple of months ago that Sam Power was seen watching a Collingwood vs Gold Coast VFL match. I watched the VFL grand final on the weekend, and I was impressed with his disposal usage. I almost thought he could have been best on ground. I think he fits what our team needs currently extremely well e.g. young winger that can use the ball well. I am just a bit concerned about his defensive efforts e.g tackling ability. However, I have also seen that Cartlon may be interested as well but I thought that may of been due to the brother connection with Oli Hollands. Any thoughts to this rumour?

Pick 4, F2, Hollands
- for -
Picks 10, 17/18 & F1 (3 x First Rounders)

I’d do it.

[Sedat]

Can I ask, did you follow the discussion from #1180 ? because it seems like you didn't - BTW: I don't disagree with your points put forward.

In Summary, it was a discussion on Lobb and whether it was an error in recruiting him.

Yeah I did, was an interesting discussion and there's no right or wrong answer. I thought 12 months ago that Lobb was an older, inferior version of English as 2nd ruck/forward and that his arrival wasn't going to help us in areas like clearances/scores from clearances (which it didn't). I was very bullish 12 months ago on a Grundy as 1st ruck and English 2nd ruck/forward combo, as that type of set-up produced by far our most successful patch since our premiership (2021 when Martin was fit).

Conversely, Lobb's arrival clearly helped English personally as he wasn't as worn out late in qtrs and games and he had his best season as ruck.

But at the end of the day, English/Lobb didn't help us get better. Neither did Liam Jones playing out of skin and way above any reasonable expectations at the start of the season. Neither did Bont/Libba/Treloar having virtual career best seasons. I want us to get better and to stay better, and I want the club to do absolutely everything in their power to get to the bottom of why they have failed so miserably in the last 2 years based on their own internal expectations, and what they are going to do to actually get better and sustain it.

The disgrace that was the West Coast game (hot on the heels of the almost as disgraceful Hawthorn game) should have been the impetus to shame the entire club into proper introspection/analysis and serious action this off-season - I hope it has/will, and I hope it is an all-club embrace from the top down to get better and stay better.

[GVGjr]

I have heard we may be interested in Elijah Hollands from the Gold Coast Suns. Does anyone know if there is any truth to the rumour? I remember reading a couple of months ago that Sam Power was seen watching a Collingwood vs Gold Coast VFL match. I watched the VFL grand final on the weekend, and I was impressed with his disposal usage. I almost thought he could have been best on ground. I think he fits what our team needs currently extremely well e.g. young winger that can use the ball well. I am just a bit concerned about his defensive efforts e.g tackling ability. However, I have also seen that Cartlon may be interested as well but I thought that may of been due to the brother connection with Oli Hollands. Any thoughts to this rumour?

I've not heard that but I wouldn't mind being in the mix for him.
BT did some analysis on how a deal could be struck to get pick 4 and Hollands but at the moment he appears to be linked to Carlton.