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  1. #1411
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by angelopetraglia View Post
    "My feeling is the Western Bulldogs are definitely interested in Nick Coffield. St Kilda have an offer to him, only one year at this point. He might be on the move if another team offers him multiple years."

    - Josh Gabelich
    That makes a bit of sense but I wonder how much of a priority he would be for us?
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  2. #1412
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    That makes a bit of sense but I wonder how much of a priority he would be for us?
    Creative / marking / running half backs doesn't appear to be the area where we have issues with Bailey Dale, JJ, Ed Richards and Bailey Williams.

  3. #1413
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    No he wasn't. Tim's numbers stack up to Grundy at the same age, if not better.

    Player Statistics Comparison
    Brodie Grundy Name Timothy English
    Melbourne Demons Team Western Bulldogs
    Ruck Position Ruck
    194 Career Games 108
    Sturt Origin South Fremantle
    April 15, 1994 Date of Birth August 10, 1997
    Turned 26 in 2020 Age 26yr 1mth
    203cm Height 207cm
    104kg Weight 103kg
    2012 National Draft Last Drafted In 2016 National Draft
    Round 1, Pick #18 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #19
    Collingwood Magpies Last Drafted By Western Bulldogs
    2020 Stats for Season 2023
    19 Games 23
    5.5 Kicks 11.2
    8.8 Handballs 7.9
    14.4 Disposals 19.1
    3.0 Marks 6.3
    0.2 Goals 0.7
    0.2 Behinds 0.2
    3.6 Tackles 4.3
    31.4 Hitouts 31.2
    1.9 Inside 50s 3.2
    0.3 Goal Assists 0.3
    2.3 Frees For 1.8
    1.5 Frees Against 1.5
    8.9 Contested Possessions 9.2
    5.8 Uncontested Possessions 11.0
    10.6 Effective Disposals 13.9
    73.6% Disposal Efficiency % 72.8%
    2.5 Clangers 3.6
    1.1 Contested Marks 1.3
    0.3 Marks Inside 50 0.6
    3.2 Clearances 3.3
    0.7 Rebound 50s 1.9
    2.2 One Percenters 4.3
    0.1 Bounces 0.3
    84.5 Time On Ground % 85.9
    0.8 Centre Clearances 1.2
    2.4 Stoppage Clearances 2.1
    3.3 Score Involvements 5.3
    99.8 Metres Gained 255.0
    1.8 Turnovers 3.3
    1.9 Intercepts 4.3
    0.5 Tackles Inside 50 0.4
    87.9 AFL Fantasy Score 118.7
    118.4 Supercoach Score 128.0
    How do his stats compare against Darcy Cameron/Mason Cox? How about Rhys Stanley? What about Nank? Just maybe, not tying up a huge chunk of your salary cap on a 1st ruck has allowed some (very) recent premiership teams to address areas of weakness elsewhere on the list and find a better balance on-field, which has helped them achieve the ultimate success. It's a crazy theory I know.

    By all means you're more than welcome to keep throwing the tables full of stats at this nuanced discussion.
    "Look at me mate. Look at me. I'm flyin'"

  4. #1414
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    I don't think that really matters to the general point being made.
    What is the general point? Tim has shown he is one of the top ruckman in the AFL? Not sure why so many haters on WOOF
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  5. #1415
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    What is the general point? Tim has shown he is one of the top ruckman in the AFL? Not sure why so many haters on WOOF
    I think the point is that comparing stats doesn't necessarily tell the story.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

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  7. #1416
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by angelopetraglia View Post
    Creative / marking / running half backs doesn't appear to be the area where we have issues with Bailey Dale, JJ, Ed Richards and Bailey Williams.
    If we are to improve internally, the likes of Dale and Williams need to elevate their games to impact forward of centre - you can add Daniel to the mix as well (who was poor to average for large parts of this year).

    I'm open to Coffield as a moneyball option (provided he is medically 100%) - he and Richards and JJ down back provides enough mid-sized cover and run from D50 for the other more creative types to add value in more dangerous areas of the ground. Nick Daicos is a skinny kid and has made the transition, no reason whatsoever why more seasoned types like Dale/Williams/Daniel can't either.
    "Look at me mate. Look at me. I'm flyin'"

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  9. #1417
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    What is the general point? Tim has shown he is one of the top ruckman in the AFL? Not sure why so many haters on WOOF
    My understanding is many consider Tim to not be tough enough in the ruck duels and would prefer someone like the Pies had on half the price.

    I like Tim, and don't agree completely with that argument however I respect it and its not without merit if you look around at what other clubs are doing.
    Also I think there's some question around Tim's demand (real or imagined I do recall Bevo saying this ) to only play ruck.
    He would be the perfect r2/forward in many eyes.

    I think that's it.

    For me I'm puzzled by the criticism and think Tim is amazing as our ruck man.

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  11. #1418
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    I think the point is that comparing stats doesn't necessarily tell the story.
    Better than perception
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  12. #1419
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    Better than perception
    You don't think sometimes perception is a necesity when looking at these numbers? I know you like the HTA stat but even that doesn't really tell the full story.

    How often does Tim's HTAs lead to a clear clearance and goal? I would suspect not very often. Maybe that's Tim maybe that's our center setups.

    How often does Tim getting a lot of hitouts or disposals correlate to us winning the game?

    How often does a less rated opposition ruckman manage to shut Tim out of the game (eg Lycett)?

    How often does Tim getting a mark lead to a slow stoppage of play where he waits and then hits a 15m pass diagonally or sends the ball backwards?

    Overall what IMPACT does Tim have on the game? We can pull out stats all we want and proclaim Lewis Young our best CHB this decade but sometimes you need to see the game and ask if that's the full story and more and more I feel the stats don' tell Tim's full story.

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  14. #1420
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    RE: Tim in the ruck - thought it was telling that they swapped he & Lobb in Geelong to great effect (Lobb even getting a Brownlow vote)

    Reminds me of that Scott Seiss gag when customers can’t find something in store when their website says it’s available ‘what do your eyes tell you?’
    Float Along - Fill Your Lungs

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  16. #1421
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    Better than perception
    I rate Tim and would do anything reasonable to keep but midfield type stats that he racks up is a trade off for him not being a traditional ruckman.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  17. #1422
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    Better than perception
    Its not perception that in all of of our finals losses since 2019 we have broken down in the ruck. Not perception either that in English?s best year, though not directly related, our results were worse.
    No one hates English, some just think he isn?t the ruckman we need.

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  19. #1423
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by JanLorMill View Post
    Its not perception that in all of of our finals losses since 2019 we have broken down in the ruck. Not perception either that in English?s best year, though not directly related, our results were worse.
    No one hates English, some just think he isn?t the ruckman we need.
    Or not worth blowing up the list to keep

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  21. #1424
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Starting to think we reshape our wings to Daniel and Dale if we can find a decent HB replacement.

    Our wings are a genuine weakness and Baker/Williams/McNeil/R. Smith etc just aren't going to cut it. Let's get serious about fixing it and re-stabilise Daniel, who has lost his way a little with having to shift all over the ground. I see no reason why Daniel can't play similar to Sidebottom - neither have pace, but they are clever, hold width, run hard and use the ball well.

    Dale can give us some exciting flair which we lack and it allows him to move into a more attacking part of the ground. He was still good this year, but the good sides put time into him as a HB (as they should) and I think he can attempt to take the 'hard' option too often. I'd like to see us throw down the challenge to him on a wing - can he get into AA conversations as a wing? It would make a big difference if he can. We lose nothing defensively because, with all respect, he isn't a good defender.

    Providing we do this, it allows us to target some options like Noble (dumb if we aren't in his ear), Coffield etc while Williams should go back to the role where he was most effective.
    Bring on the cricket!

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  23. #1425
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bulldogs Bite View Post
    Starting to think we reshape our wings to Daniel and Dale if we can find a decent HB replacement.

    Our wings are a genuine weakness and Baker/Williams/McNeil/R. Smith etc just aren't going to cut it. Let's get serious about fixing it and re-stabilise Daniel, who has lost his way a little with having to shift all over the ground. I see no reason why Daniel can't play similar to Sidebottom - neither have pace, but they are clever, hold width, run hard and use the ball well.

    Dale can give us some exciting flair which we lack and it allows him to move into a more attacking part of the ground. He was still good this year, but the good sides put time into him as a HB (as they should) and I think he can attempt to take the 'hard' option too often. I'd like to see us throw down the challenge to him on a wing - can he get into AA conversations as a wing? It would make a big difference if he can. We lose nothing defensively because, with all respect, he isn't a good defender.

    Providing we do this, it allows us to target some options like Noble (dumb if we aren't in his ear), Coffield etc while Williams should go back to the role where he was most effective.
    I don't undertand the wings at all. We have given Baker and Poulter 2 years. Rorke Smith not let go yet. I see Dale and Williams playing there not so sure on Daniel. Apparently looking at Billings too

    Have no problem going for Coffield, Noble, or Billings but it's all about the cost.

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