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  1. #1426
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bulldogs Bite View Post
    Starting to think we reshape our wings to Daniel and Dale if we can find a decent HB replacement.
    I like the thought and it's probably a 'trial in pre-season and see what it looks like' proposition, but I have some doubts.

    The stand-out traits with effective wingers is their running capacity. I don't think Dale has the tank to pull it off. I think Caleb has the attributes, but I guess you're not going to get a wing that can drop back into defence and help out aerially.

    I actually thought Williams played the role effectively this year and we just didn't use him enough. The only game I saw live was the Hawthorn game in Launceston, and it was ridiculous how many times Williams held his position on the fat side, should have been used but the player with possession just went down the line and didn't even look in-board. There was one point where Williams had gotten out the back of the zone, was on his own and 20 metres out from goal and wasn't seen.

    It felt like a real disconnect because there was obviously an instruction for our wingers to hold their width (I think Bevo even alluded to that with Poulter 'playing how we want our wings to play'), but the ball carriers were just so set on going down the line that it was wasted.

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  3. #1427
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pie Man View Post
    RE: Tim in the ruck - thought it was telling that they swapped he & Lobb in Geelong to great effect (Lobb even getting a Brownlow vote)
    That serves you right for trusting your eyes and common sense, when you can simply just look at a bunch of arbitrary stats post-game to make a blanket decision irrespective of the result of the game.
    "Look at me mate. Look at me. I'm flyin'"

  4. #1428
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Would woofers trade Bailey Smith for Oliver? Interesting that rival clubs think that Oliver could be gettable.

  5. #1429
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    “One to watch over the next couple of weeks, clubs are weighing up now whether to make a move for Melbourne superstar Clayton Oliver in this year’s trade period,” Beveridge began.

    “He obviously had a very challenging year…”

    Twomey added: “Rival clubs are considering a the cost of a trade attempt for Oliver… it is unclear if he would be open to any move and there has been absolutely no indication that Melbourne would be willing to part with him either.

    “This is from the point of view of rival clubs getting their (house) in order to see if a play for him is something they want to proceed with.”

  6. #1430
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by kruder View Post
    Would woofers trade Bailey Smith for Oliver? Interesting that rival clubs think that Oliver could be gettable.
    Yes.

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  8. #1431
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by Grantysghost View Post
    Yes.
    So... GG... Smith and Oliver are different midfielders, but you want to keep Smith over Naughton, English and JUH? But willing to trade him for Oliver?
    More of an In Bruges guy?

  9. #1432
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by azabob View Post
    So... GG... Smith and Oliver are different midfielders, but you want to keep Smith over Naughton, English and JUH? But willing to trade him for Oliver?
    If Smith plays his preferred inside mid spot and gets less clear space to be fed the footy on the outside, are they really that different? Oliver is the better pure ball winner and Smith has more pace on the outside, but I actually don't think Oliver is a bad template for what Smith should be aiming for, if he does play as a full-time inside/outside midfielder.

    Oliver is clearly the better player and the Dees would rightfully ask for a lot alongside Smith, plus we'd be committing to another million dollar salary.

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  11. #1433
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by lemmon View Post
    If Smith plays his preferred inside mid spot and gets less clear space to be fed the footy on the outside, are they really that different? Oliver is the better pure ball winner and Smith has more pace on the outside, but I actually don't think Oliver is a bad template for what Smith should be aiming for, if he does play as a full-time inside/outside midfielder.

    Oliver is clearly the better player and the Dees would rightfully ask for a lot alongside Smith, plus we'd be committing to another million dollar salary.
    Does being 4 years younger help with that? Smith has all his best years ahead of him and Oliver, though a better player, has found his peak and will presumably decline in the next 3-5 years

  12. #1434
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    Does being 4 years younger help with that? Smith has all his best years ahead of him and Oliver, though a better player, has found his peak and will presumably decline in the next 3-5 years
    Smith may well leave anyway imagine having Bont and Oliver in the same midfield for the next 3 years.
    But then again, I'm an Internet poster and Bevo is a premiership coach so draw your own conclusions.

  13. #1435
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by Sedat View Post
    That serves you right for trusting your eyes and common sense, when you can simply just look at a bunch of arbitrary stats post-game to make a blanket decision irrespective of the result of the game.
    twisting words again to suit your narrative.

    I was talking about comparing Grundy at age 26 and English at age 26. Grundy was 26 in 2020, and we have nothing but stats to compare, not perception.

    Anyway, I am done talking about Tim.
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  14. #1436
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by 1eyedog View Post
    Smith may well leave anyway imagine having Bont and Oliver in the same midfield for the next 3 years.
    No doubt he'd be great. I was more angling for the compensation differential

  15. #1437
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    twisting words again to suit your narrative.

    I was talking about comparing Grundy at age 26 and English at age 26. Grundy was 26 in 2020, and we have nothing but stats to compare, not perception.

    Anyway, I am done talking about Tim.
    Grundy's best was 2017-19 anyway. 2020 was when things started to dip

  16. #1438
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by azabob View Post
    So... GG... Smith and Oliver are different midfielders, but you want to keep Smith over Naughton, English and JUH? But willing to trade him for Oliver?
    Yes.

  17. #1439
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Player Statistics Comparison
    Brodie Grundy Name Timothy English
    Melbourne Demons Team Western Bulldogs
    Ruck Position Ruck
    194 Career Games 108
    Sturt Origin South Fremantle
    April 15, 1994 Date of Birth August 10, 1997
    Turned 25 in 2019 Age 26yr 1mth
    203cm Height 207cm
    104kg Weight 103kg
    2012 National Draft Last Drafted In 2016 National Draft
    Round 1, Pick #18 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #19
    Collingwood Magpies Last Drafted By Western Bulldogs
    2019 Stats for Season 2023
    24 Games 23
    9.9 Kicks 11.2
    11.5 Handballs 7.9
    21.3 Disposals 19.1
    4.4 Marks 6.3
    0.3 Goals 0.7
    0.5 Behinds 0.2
    4.3 Tackles 4.3
    42.6 Hitouts 31.2
    2.1 Inside 50s 3.2
    0.2 Goal Assists 0.3
    2.2 Frees For 1.8
    2.0 Frees Against 1.5
    13.7 Contested Possessions 9.2
    8.5 Uncontested Possessions 11.0
    14.5 Effective Disposals 13.9
    68.1% Disposal Efficiency % 72.8%
    4.2 Clangers 3.6
    1.2 Contested Marks 1.3
    0.2 Marks Inside 50 0.6
    6.1 Clearances 3.3
    1.2 Rebound 50s 1.9
    2.7 One Percenters 4.3
    0.2 Bounces 0.3
    89.1 Time On Ground % 85.9
    2.1 Centre Clearances 1.2
    4.0 Stoppage Clearances 2.1
    6.4 Score Involvements 5.3
    181.6 Metres Gained 255.0
    3.0 Turnovers 3.3
    2.9 Intercepts 4.3
    0.5 Tackles Inside 50 0.4
    124.2 AFL Fantasy Score 118.7
    130.9 Supercoach Score 128.0
    Out of interest I figured why not look at their respective best years. Grundy at 25 and English at 26. Grundy's 3rd and arguably last as an elite ruck and English's first.

    Grundy looks the better tap ruckman on paper, more contested and more impact on the clearances for a slight reduction in disposals, meters gained and a minor difference in DE%

    Personally if I had to pick one at their peak it'd be Grundy. If disposal numbers are similar I'd prefer the ruck that gets more contested ball and impacts clearances than one that gets uncontested possessions. Worth noting Grundy at his best was amazing BUT this is the kind of performance Tim is asking to be paid for.

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  19. #1440
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    Re: Early Trade Rumours 2023

    Which is why you do not pay rucks $1M or more a season. Irrespective of their name or club.
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

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