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  1. #46
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    He's had a couple of years of close to 50 goal seasons, does that not indicate he's a very good forward?
    He's done really well considering his shocking kicking.
    He's a good forward, I just think he'd be a better defender.
    I also think defence is the key to winning flags.

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  3. #47
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    Saturday night was not a totally unexpected disaster. There?s even a WOOF thread that suggested that it was a real possibility.

    Why was it on peoples minds? Because there have been problems leading up to this game. Problems that were not addressed.

    We defeated GWS, both teams had the same number of scoring shots. And GWS was missing their best? player. It was a win but not really a confidence booster. Fell over the line against Carlton and despite dominating against Adelaide our forwards looked suspect again.

    Cracks were appearing in English?s ruck work but escaped examination in the euphoria around the wins. Grand Final- here we come. Nothing to worry about here. On Saturday the cracks in the forward line and ruck opened further.

    Correct me if I am wrong but I saw opposition tap ruckmen give their rovers easy stats in the last 4 games. Bont and Libba struggled uncharacteristically this time. No criticism intended for any of them. We simply have not considered getting a plan B. English is taking 70 or 80 contests against big bodies, and still contributing around the ground.

    We spend hours every week deciding whether we will play McNeil, McComb, Hannan, ?. and then more hours reviewing their meagre possessions (none of which were significant). These players should not be part of our strategy.

    On Saturday the forwards were struggling. Naughton, Jones, Lobb and Weightman didn?t seem to understand that their reason for being in the team was simply to kick goals. The few we were getting came from others up the field. We needed to change the dynamics, put the Suns defenders under some real pressure. Swing our number 22 player into the mix, shake up the ruck and the forward line, let English get some pressure off the forwards and boot a few goals. Change the predictability around throw-ins, put a doubt into the minds of the opposition midfielders. Never been part of the plan. So echoes of the end of 2021. Let fate play out. Lose.

    So lucky we have O?Brien to blame. I don?t see him as being any part of the problem. Lobb?s kick from close in was simply a catastrophe when it hit the behind post and failed to score. Naughton contributed nothing from his easy kick at goal from less than 30 metres. These are our seasoned champions. Two easy goals here and we still win. Our win should never have been at risk. But as we are clearly showing, without a real plan B we are always at risk.
    It's not even a real plan B that we need. I get we want to back in the players and the system but it just all feels a bit rigid to me. Very rarely are the magnets moved under Bevo.
    But then again, I'm an Internet poster and Bevo is a premiership coach so draw your own conclusions.

  4. #48
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Quote Originally Posted by lemmon View Post
    What do the Hawkins and Cameron match-ups look like?

    I think Jones is most suited to Hawkins as he'll play closer to goal and doesn't have Cameron's running capacity, leaving Cameron with Gardiner or Keath.

    Gardiner is probably a better runner than Keath and might be more suited to going with Cameron up the ground, but I'd trust Keath more playing close to goal on Cameron. Gardiner does his best work when he gets a run and jump at the footy, but I think really struggles in marking contests when he's standing shoulder to shoulder.

    I'd worry about Cameron sneaking out the back with Gardiner liking to defend a few metres in front of his man. Keath's made some blues with ball in hand this year, but I think his defensive work has been pretty solid.

    Think I'd play all three of Gardiner, Keath and Jones - leaving out JOD and O'Brien - so that we have more flexibility with their key forwards.

    Interesting match committee coming up!
    Gardner on Jezza is a big worry. Jezza has way too many smarts and Gardner is one dimensional.

    Man I hate to take him out of a position he is absolutely killing it in but Bailey Williams on Cameron would not be an insane concept for me if Bevo was ballsy enough to pulled that lever.
    But then again, I'm an Internet poster and Bevo is a premiership coach so draw your own conclusions.

  5. #49
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Quote Originally Posted by Grantysghost View Post
    He's done really well considering his shocking kicking.
    He's a good forward, I just think he'd be a better defender.
    I also think defence is the key to winning flags.
    Forwards pull memberships and defence wins Premierships.
    But then again, I'm an Internet poster and Bevo is a premiership coach so draw your own conclusions.

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  7. #50
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Quote Originally Posted by Grantysghost View Post
    He's done really well considering his shocking kicking.
    He's a good forward, I just think he'd be a better defender.
    I also think defence is the key to winning flags.
    That he could make a better defender makes some sense to me but it's a bit different to the comment that he can't play forward.
    Even if he made us a one to 2 goal better defensive unit, which is a big ask, it doesn't mean we can cover his goal kicking and contribution up forward.
    If Lobb was contributing more or we had that real break out from Marra I'd be a bit more open to considering the move. Putting Bruce forward might work at closing the gap.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

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  9. #51
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Quote Originally Posted by Grantysghost View Post
    He's done really well considering his shocking kicking.
    He's a good forward, I just think he'd be a better defender.
    I also think defence is the key to winning flags.
    how do we feel about Naughton, ball in hand kicking out of defence?

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  11. #52
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    If anyone says we should move Chris Grant from the forward line to CHB then they?re crazy. Moving a proven goal kicker like him into defence would be crazy. What?s he going to do, suddenly become the best CHB in the game capable of nullifying everyone including Wayne Carey? Moves like this never ever work.

    Who?s then going to kick our goals, Darcy? Croft? West? A 30+ Liberatore after an ACL?
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

  12. #53
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    If anyone says we should move Chris Grant from the forward line to CHB then they?re crazy. Moving a proven goal kicker like him into defence would be crazy. What?s he going to do, suddenly become the best CHB in the game capable of nullifying everyone including Wayne Carey? Moves like this never ever work.

    Who?s then going to kick our goals, Darcy? Croft? West? A 30+ Liberatore after an ACL?
    Yes Chris was a better forward or needed forward.
    Wish he had a career forward.
    Did Pagan put Carey back?

    SBS: "AFL PLAYERS TO MISS OUT ON THE BROWNLOW MEDAL BECAUSE OF SUSPENSION:
    1997: Western Bulldogs key forward Chris Grant polls one more vote than St Kilda's Robert Harvey. But Grant is ineligible for a controversial one-week striking ban - an open-handed slap on Hawthorn opponent Nick Holland.
    "1997: Western Bulldogs key forward Chris Grant".

  13. #54
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    If anyone says we should move Chris Grant from the forward line to CHB then they?re crazy. Moving a proven goal kicker like him into defence would be crazy. What?s he going to do, suddenly become the best CHB in the game capable of nullifying everyone including Wayne Carey? Moves like this never ever work.

    Who?s then going to kick our goals, Darcy? Croft? West? A 30+ Liberatore after an ACL?
    I get the point you are making but I'm note sure the comparison is a good one because Chris was a brilliant field kick and set up many attacking plays from CHB. Naughton on the other hand is not a brilliant field kick.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

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  15. #55
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    I get the point you are making but I'm note sure the comparison is a good one because Chris was a brilliant field kick and set up many attacking plays from CHB. Naughton on the other hand is not a brilliant field kick.
    Naughts just needs simple instructions. Mark the ball or spoil the ball. Apply pressure and give the ball to JJ, Dale or Richards. Outside of that it's a Crozier down the line instruction. No 15 metre field kicks under any circumstance.
    But then again, I'm an Internet poster and Bevo is a premiership coach so draw your own conclusions.

  16. #56
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    None of Jones, Lobb nor Ugle-Hagan are anywhere near Naughton's capacities as a key forward. As it currently stands, he's the sole reliable key forward on the list.

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  18. #57
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Quote Originally Posted by D Mitchell View Post
    None of Jones, Lobb nor Ugle-Hagan are anywhere near Naughton's capacities as a key forward. As it currently stands, he's the sole reliable key forward on the list.
    Key forwards are like Gold. Anyone can defend
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  19. #58
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Quote Originally Posted by FrediKanoute View Post
    how do we feel about Naughton, ball in hand kicking out of defence?
    That could be an issue!

  20. #59
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    That he could make a better defender makes some sense to me but it's a bit different to the comment that he can't play forward.
    Even if he made us a one to 2 goal better defensive unit, which is a big ask, it doesn't mean we can cover his goal kicking and contribution up forward.
    If Lobb was contributing more or we had that real break out from Marra I'd be a bit more open to considering the move. Putting Bruce forward might work at closing the gap.
    Yes that was tongue in cheek. He's a good forward.

    I wish we had two of him.

    Our defence has been great this season so far, however I'm still not sold it's going to stand up consistently going forward.
    Jones gets injured we are in all sorts.

    In last week's game he looked lost for the first time in a while as a forward. Considering our defensive woes I don't get why we wouldn't move him back.

  21. #60
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Quote Originally Posted by 1eyedog View Post
    Gardner on Jezza is a big worry. Jezza has way too many smarts and Gardner is one dimensional.

    Man I hate to take him out of a position he is absolutely killing it in but Bailey Williams on Cameron would not be an insane concept for me if Bevo was ballsy enough to pulled that lever.
    If Gardner isn’t playing on Cameron or Hawkins he shouldn’t be picked this week.

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