Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

[soupman]

If we were thrilled with JOD having 4 possessions two weeks in a row maybe we could risk Sweet instead.

Fwiw no one is "thrilled" with Jods output thus far, and I doubt anyone is particularly strong on keeping him in the side, I mean there's barely been a post in this thread that hasn't dropped him.

Some are encouraged or excited by what he could be. But no one is raving about his 4 disposals (one of which was a horrifically over ambitious kuck into the corridor which cost us a goal late) as is being made out.

[bornadog]

In Treloar, Poulter

Out: McNeil and JOD

[Mofra]

In Treloar, Poulter

Out: McNeil and JOD

I'd be happy enough with this. That's a fair increase in our running ability

[Bulldog4life]

I'm not sure it's quite that simplistic.

Things have changed for sure. Jack Dyer used to say "ratbags to the backline."

[1eyedog]

I agree that stats have a context and need to be seen in the wide view of how the team is going. They also have to be viewed in terms of the position played and the competition for the role. But they give a summary that is independent of subjective opinions and cloudy memory.

The reason I quoted those particular numbers is I did not see the game. So I looked at the stats published on the AFL website to confirm the comment I had read. They allowed me to compare players, Bruce is experienced and reliable and lost his position in the firsts simply because of injury. The stats suggest that In terms of general play Sweet was comparable.

In terms of tackles 5 is good, people on Woof are saying that was an unacceptable aspect of the main game. They are certainly lacking in Lobbs games- he averages 1 per game.

Importantly, the stats are compiled by an independent observer and summary value uses a neutral algorithm. So without seeing the game I can have reasonable confidence that Sweet contributed more to his team than Moyle did. But they were close.

When people saw JOD get 4 possessions and claimed that he had a good game and deserved to be selected again, to get another 4, I don?t understand how they generate their conclusion. When Lobb joined us he got 5 possessions and people said that was an acceptable start. Lobb is averaging 9 possessions and 1 goal and people are thrilled.

To illustrate, When Schache came to the club he got 10 games averaging 15 possessions and 2 goals per game. At the start of the next season I sat behind the goals and saw him kick 4 match winning goals against Hawthorn (who were still a strong team). Two weeks later he was dropped for two months after his first poor game. What he had done for his team and its supporters was worth nothing. When he got back into the team he got another 10 games and averaged 2 goals and 14 possessions. What I saw at the games and in the statistics record were consistent. The collective stats seem to describe the game the way I see it. So I have faith in them.

By the way, people on Woof were already calling for Schache to be dropped when he was our most consistent and reliable goal kicker. I remember one comment said that he was being carried by a good team. But I also remember that he kicked 30% of the teams goals in his return game. For 20 games he maintained stats that were twice as good as Lobb is doing now. But his days were already numbered. So who is correct in judging performance, the one who has something measurable to assist them or those understand the game?

So back to your question. Nobody has ever explicitly stated what is contributing more to the team than disposals, marks, goals, tackles, metres gained, spoils and 1%ers. I am happy to hear what those things are. Please tell me. But don?t tell me that when Bruce got his third possession late in the game at Marvel last year he deserved to be selected because he had acted as a forward line general (yep, read it on woof). He was selected and got 2 the next week, and those 5 got him selected again.


I think Lobb is an asset and JOD will be very good, so none of what I wrote is criticism. I only refer to them for comparisons.

Good post.

I remember that Hawthorn game. Schache was on the end of an absolute Joe the Goose and Sicily gave away two free kicks resulting in two goals for Schache. So Schache only kicked one goal. Melbourne don't have a full forward. If Schache was any good he'd be playing.

Also, sorry to pick specific points and not provide a more overarching response, but no-one is thrilled with Lobb and I don't think anyone has been thrilled with his output from any one game this season. He's not giving us what we need and that's why he's been moved up the ground. To provide an option to help with our transitions.

[Danjul]

Good post.

I remember that Hawthorn game. Schache was on the end of an absolute Joe the Goose and Sicily gave away two free kicks resulting in two goals for Schache. So Schache only kicked one goal. Melbourne don't have a full forward. If Schache was any good he'd be playing.

Also, sorry to pick specific points and not provide a more overarching response, but no-one is thrilled with Lobb and I don't think anyone has been thrilled with his output from any one game this season. He's not giving us what we need and that's why he's been moved up the ground. To provide an option to help with our transitions.

So when Schache kicks 4 goals only one counts? Seems fair.

I can?t agree with your comment about Melbourne. They have more than enough forwards for their game plan. Somehow they have managed to kick 45 more goals than us this year.

With Gawn they are using Grundy the same way we are using Lobb. They can?t even find a way to get Jonathan Brown back into the team. And they are getting games into their young bloke van Rouen. the way we are with Arthur. He has kicked more goals than Lobb and JUH so he will not be dropped.

[Danjul]

English is a different player this year

He has been beaten in the ruck in recent games: Hawthorn, Carlton, Adelaide and Suns. He is still a fantastic player but watching the selection committee refusing to get the full benefit from his immense talent is quite tiresome.

[mjp]

We know this is about the team for the game in a couple of days right?

Can we start another thread about Josh Schache, his treatment (fair or otherwise) and his prospects for getting a gig with the Dees to another place?

I'm actually really interested in the thoughts of the posters above on selections for this weeks game vs Geelong. But - and I like Josh a lot as a person - I actually am not interested in him as a footballer anymore because he has moved on/been moved on - rightly or wrongly it no longers matters to me - from the FFC.

Thanks! :-)

[Grantysghost]

So are we thinking Poulter comes straight into JJ's spot? I know he's been more wing in the VFL, I just noticed that in his interview post draft he mentioned he is a half back/wing with good kicking skills and run and carry.

Sounds like JJ to me ! We probably missed that quick ball movement last week.

So im going :

In : Treloar, Poulter.
Out : McNeil, O'Donnell.

(McNeil to sub).

[hujsh]

In Treloar, Poulter

Out: McNeil and JOD

So are we thinking Poulter comes straight into JJ's spot? I know he's been more wing in the VFL, I just noticed that in his interview post draft he mentioned he is a half back/wing with good kicking skills and run and carry.

Sounds like JJ to me ! We probably missed that quick ball movement last week.

So im going :

In : Treloar, Poulter.
Out : McNeil, O'Donnell.

(McNeil to sub).

I think this is probably the board consensus. It'd be funny if this was the week we brought Cleary in though with the fake out of Poulter

[Rocco Jones]

We know this is about the team for the game in a couple of days right?

Can we start another thread about Josh Schache, his treatment (fair or otherwise) and his prospects for getting a gig with the Dees to another place?

I'm actually really interested in the thoughts of the posters above on selections for this weeks game vs Geelong. But - and I like Josh a lot as a person - I actually am not interested in him as a footballer anymore because he has moved on/been moved on - rightly or wrongly it no longers matters to me - from the FFC.

Thanks! :-)

I was about to say I am going to railroad the danjul Q&A with my team selection ideas.


In: Adz, Poulter
Out: McNeil, JOD

I think the sub should more tactical than about the actual individual. I'd prefer someone with speed. Back to McNeil or VDM (I know he hasn't shown much in VFL).

[Critter]

So are we thinking Poulter comes straight into JJ's spot? I know he's been more wing in the VFL, I just noticed that in his interview post draft he mentioned he is a half back/wing with good kicking skills and run and carry.

Sounds like JJ to me ! We probably missed that quick ball movement last week.

So im going :

In : Treloar, Poulter.
Out : McNeil, O'Donnell.

(McNeil to sub).

If selected, I think Poulter will play wing (which suits his run and long kicking) and Baker will take over the JJ role, which suits his speed, body strength and experience.

[Axe Man]

So are we thinking Poulter comes straight into JJ's spot? I know he's been more wing in the VFL, I just noticed that in his interview post draft he mentioned he is a half back/wing with good kicking skills and run and carry.

Sounds like JJ to me ! We probably missed that quick ball movement last week.

So im going :

In : Treloar, Poulter.
Out : McNeil, O'Donnell.

(McNeil to sub).

You feeling ok GG?

[Axe Man]

I was about to say I am going to railroad the danjul Q&A with my team selection ideas.


In: Adz, Poulter
Out: McNeil, JOD

I think the sub should more tactical than about the actual individual. I'd prefer someone with speed. Back to McNeil or VDM (I know he hasn't shown much in VFL).

The AFL site in the mix article this week has Vanders in the frame for what it's worth (probably not much), but we do like playing him when fit.

Luke Beveridge will spend time this week considering how his backline looks against Geelong on Saturday night. Alex Keath and Josh Bruce both played in the VFL game in Darwin and could be considered. The Dogs are looking for someone to replace the pace lost by Jason Johannisen. Laith Vandermeer has moved down back since recovering from injury and could return at Marvel Stadium after producing a strong showing against Gold Coast's reserves. Toby McLean amassed 30 touches in that game but has been on the outer. Rhylee West collected 23 touches and a goal, while Hayden Crozier finished with 22 disposals at TIO Stadium. Adam Treloar is set to return after missing the past three games due to a hamstring strain.

[Grantysghost]

I was about to say I am going to railroad the danjul Q&A with my team selection ideas.


In: Adz, Poulter
Out: McNeil, JOD

I think the sub should more tactical than about the actual individual. I'd prefer someone with speed. Back to McNeil or VDM (I know he hasn't shown much in VFL).

Man great minds Rocco !!