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  1. #31
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    In: Treloar,
    Out: McNeil

    Cleary or Crozier for one of JOD or TOB - perhaps MC persist with both though as TOB positions himself well and JOD is improving week on week.

    I wonder how Lobb lines up this week - could be another 'wing game' for him if we're that concerned about Jezza Cameron (a top 5 player in the comp) and Hawkins (out of form by his high standards).
    That puts either JOD or TOB on Gary Rohan which is not ideal.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

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  3. #32
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    What do the Hawkins and Cameron match-ups look like?

    I think Jones is most suited to Hawkins as he'll play closer to goal and doesn't have Cameron's running capacity, leaving Cameron with Gardiner or Keath.

    Gardiner is probably a better runner than Keath and might be more suited to going with Cameron up the ground, but I'd trust Keath more playing close to goal on Cameron. Gardiner does his best work when he gets a run and jump at the footy, but I think really struggles in marking contests when he's standing shoulder to shoulder.

    I'd worry about Cameron sneaking out the back with Gardiner liking to defend a few metres in front of his man. Keath's made some blues with ball in hand this year, but I think his defensive work has been pretty solid.

    Think I'd play all three of Gardiner, Keath and Jones - leaving out JOD and O'Brien - so that we have more flexibility with their key forwards.

    Interesting match committee coming up!

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  5. #33
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Quote Originally Posted by lemmon View Post
    What do the Hawkins and Cameron match-ups look like?

    I think Jones is most suited to Hawkins as he'll play closer to goal and doesn't have Cameron's running capacity, leaving Cameron with Gardiner or Keath.

    Gardiner is probably a better runner than Keath and might be more suited to going with Cameron up the ground, but I'd trust Keath more playing close to goal on Cameron. Gardiner does his best work when he gets a run and jump at the footy, but I think really struggles in marking contests when he's standing shoulder to shoulder.

    I'd worry about Cameron sneaking out the back with Gardiner liking to defend a few metres in front of his man. Keath's made some blues with ball in hand this year, but I think his defensive work has been pretty solid.

    Think I'd play all three of Gardiner, Keath and Jones - leaving out JOD and O'Brien - so that we have more flexibility with their key forwards.

    Interesting match committee coming up!
    TBH I'm more concerned about Cameron kicking the ball inside 50 - it's easy to overlook just how good a field kick he is.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

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  7. #34
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    In Treloar and Cleary
    Out McNeil and ODonnell

    Shame for McNeil and ODonnell but we have a very difficult opponent and they arent in the required form.
    Doing my best to use emojis more frequently

  8. #35
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    the flaw in my comments is I usually only watch Bulldog games. But it allows me to disagree when you say Suns beat us.

    We threw that game away. Using the team as an incubator for the 2024 season. Continuing with a dysfunctional forward setup. Allowing their midfielders to walk away from stoppages.

    All we needed was to throw a spanner in the works. But where? Probably debatable. But we had to break their system, what they were obviously comfortable with. What did we attempt? Nothing. We had no flexibility to address what wasn?t working for us. We are like a formula 1 team that only has dry weather tyres.

    The more even the competition the more important it is to be focused on winning and not make these mistakes. But for it to be even we have slipped. We spent most of 2021 as Top Dog. Now we can be harsh and say some of our wins involved good luck.
    I think Rowell was the obvious one to do something about, not Bevo's style though.
    I would've tried something. Maybe they did and he was just too good.

    Sometimes the opposition is just too good I guess. Rowell was amazing.

  9. #36
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Sorry this is so long, but it has been on my mind for a while. I feel we are not maximising the potential within our list.

    We seem paralysed in our thinking of how best to get the most out of key players. Essentially, I’m talking of Tim English and Aaron Naughton. Both are franchise quality players whose talents are being wasted because we see them in one guise only, regardless of what performance and hence, logic, tell us.

    We have history. Our backline was a basket case for years, essentially due to the lack of KPDs. So, we recruited Liam Jones and he’s been fantastic - an intercepting KPD who has become the focus of our defence. But let’s remember, we are the club that saw Jones as a forward only and then traded him out because we couldn’t see potential. And we are also the club that played All Australian defender Jason Johannisen out of position for 3 long years because, when he was heavily tagged, we couldn’t strategise a way around the problem.

    However, the shift in recent years of Dale and Richards to defence might indicate fresh buds of thinking. It facilitated the return of JJ to the backline and created an attacking group of attacking medium/small defenders whose numbers are now such that they cannot be tagged out of a game.

    But our weakness is still in our KPDs. GCS game showed this. Only Liam Jones is of elite quality. The rest – Gardner, TOB, Keath and Bruce - are journeymen-status players. Jones sorely needs quality support but it seems quite a long way off. Our potential replacements for him – Busslinger and O’Donnell - are young and yet to prove themselves. However, in Aaron Naughton, we have a ready solution. He is a footballer whose skills are such that he would at least rival Darcy Moore as an elite KPD. Naughton and Jones would lead the best backline in the AFL.

    Naughton is a fantastic footballer. He can will himself to any contest and is rarely beaten in any one-on-one tussle. He has great skills as well as physical attributes such as strength, speed and endurance. If you were to send a recruiter out to look for the perfect KPD, I reckon he would return with Aaron Naughton. He would be far more useful to the club in this role than he is in his current role. And he would still have the option of drifting forward for a quarter or two, as does Moore. At his age, he has the potential to be the keystone of our defence for the next ten years.

    Tim English could be the archetypal utility, ? la Mark Blicavs. Only better. His attributes are excellent marking, kicking, handball and ground play. But he does have weaknesses. Most particularly, his tap work and the limited physicality he applies at ruck contests. (The way we leak possession at too many CBAs is the cause of ongoing frustration.) Why then, do we not maximise his potential by using him in a position that derives maximum benefit from his skills, i.e. as a follower/utility? We could bolster our capability in the areas where Tim is underperforming (tap ruck-work) by including a more traditional style ruckman.

    Jordan Sweet is the perfect adjunct to Tim English. While he has weaknesses in marking and, to a degree, in precision short kicking, he is an excellent tap ruckman who is physically aggressive in ruck contests. Particularly at CBAs. Think back to his rucking stint last year - he couldn’t be pushed around and, at CBAs, he would often follow up the tap contest with strong tackling of oppo midfielders. Not once was there a parade of exits out the front of successive centre bounces. And I bet a few opposition midfielders would be more tired and sore at the end of a game than they are now.

    In the follower/utility role Tim would expose oppo rucks for pace and endurance as he moved up and down the line. He would provide a ready path both out of defence and into attack. His skills and height, coupled with his mobility, would make him a very difficult competitor - as he is now - except in this role he would be in more contests, more often.

    JUH would remain the key forward supported by Lobb and Darcy – with the latter two alternating between playing from the square or moving up to the 50m line/wing to provide a down-the-line option on the opposite of the ground to English.

    The team would look like this:
    JJ* L Jones Gardner
    Richards Naughton Dale
    Baker Liberatore Williams
    A Jones Lobb Smith
    Darcy** JUH Weightman
    Sweet English Bontempelli

    Treloar Daniel Macrae Scott

    *Until JJ is ready, I would play Baker in his role. Like for like in terms of speed. Move Scott to wing and have Duryea on the bench
    ** Until Darcy is ready, I would play Buku in his role

  10. #37
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Fantastic contribution Critter, appreciated.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  11. #38
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Quote Originally Posted by Critter View Post
    JJ* L Jones Gardner
    Richards Naughton Dale
    Baker Liberatore Williams
    A Jones Lobb Smith
    Darcy** JUH Weightman
    Sweet English Bontempelli

    Treloar Daniel Macrae Scott
    Great post.

    We're too big like that mate. WAY too big. Lobb, Sweet, Gardner, Jones, Jamarra and Jones would be lucky to have 25 touches between them...we need either more talls like Naughton and English who will get the ball and contribute in ball movement OR we need more running players who can do the same...

    As an aside, you'll never convince me moving Naughton is a good idea but I appreciate the post. :-)
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  12. #39
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Two changes. Treloar in McNeill out for Hannan
    McNeill sub [or maybe on the back of a good game at VFL West gets the sub - MC choice].
    Hannan has a better ability to take a mark and kick the odd goal than McNeill
    The GC game was a shoulda won. Lost due to forward stuffups and a rampaging Rowell who Bevo in his lack of wisdom did nothing about. Forward stuffups include inability to keep the astounding 18 more inside 50's inside 50 and kick at least two more goals viz Naughtons and Marras howlers and our propensity to bomb the ball in.
    Can't point the finger anywhere else really, everyone had a dope moment.

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  14. #40
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    re: Critter

    ………Jordan Sweet is the perfect adjunct to Tim English. While he has weaknesses in marking and, to a degree, in precision short kicking, he is an excellent tap ruckman who is physically aggressive in ruck contests. Particularly at CBAs. Think back to his rucking stint last year - he couldn?t be pushed around and, at CBAs, he would often follow up the tap contest with strong tackling of oppo midfielders. Not once was there a parade of exits out the front of successive centre bounces……

    I think his ship has sailed. There is no evidence that he has improved in the years that he has been at the club. Just wasting his time in the vfl where he just does the hack work.
    Like most of the others there he has probably given up.

    When was he seen as a suitable component of the game plan the AFL team has been using for the last 5 years? His ticket was stamped when we brought in a recognised champion to assist English.

    On Saturday we came up against Witts who got 50+ hitouts and about 20 disposals. He brought others into the game. Unexpected? No, it was a repeat of what he has done before. When that data was put into the selection algorithm the printout said JOD would be a better option to counter a potentially dominant performance than Sweet.

    The result is history. Soon forgotten- probably by Tuesday - and almost as quickly repeated.

    Sweet will only get a game if all the more preferred options, and I suspect Caleb Daniel is on that list- refuse to do it. He is simply another of our talls who made the critical mistake of having a name late in the alphabet.

  15. #41
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Quote Originally Posted by meenies View Post
    Footscray or Lonsdale St end.
    Correction La Trobe Street end
    "Footscray people are incredible people; so humble. I'm just so happy - ecstatic"

  16. #42
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Quote Originally Posted by Critter View Post
    Sorry this is so long, but it has been on my mind for a while. I feel we are not maximising the potential within our list.

    We seem paralysed in our thinking of how best to get the most out of key players. Essentially, I’m talking of Tim English and Aaron Naughton. Both are franchise quality players whose talents are being wasted because we see them in one guise only, regardless of what performance and hence, logic, tell us.

    We have history. Our backline was a basket case for years, essentially due to the lack of KPDs. So, we recruited Liam Jones and he’s been fantastic - an intercepting KPD who has become the focus of our defence. But let’s remember, we are the club that saw Jones as a forward only and then traded him out because we couldn’t see potential. And we are also the club that played All Australian defender Jason Johannisen out of position for 3 long years because, when he was heavily tagged, we couldn’t strategise a way around the problem.

    However, the shift in recent years of Dale and Richards to defence might indicate fresh buds of thinking. It facilitated the return of JJ to the backline and created an attacking group of attacking medium/small defenders whose numbers are now such that they cannot be tagged out of a game.

    But our weakness is still in our KPDs. GCS game showed this. Only Liam Jones is of elite quality. The rest – Gardner, TOB, Keath and Bruce - are journeymen-status players. Jones sorely needs quality support but it seems quite a long way off. Our potential replacements for him – Busslinger and O’Donnell - are young and yet to prove themselves. However, in Aaron Naughton, we have a ready solution. He is a footballer whose skills are such that he would at least rival Darcy Moore as an elite KPD. Naughton and Jones would lead the best backline in the AFL.

    Naughton is a fantastic footballer. He can will himself to any contest and is rarely beaten in any one-on-one tussle. He has great skills as well as physical attributes such as strength, speed and endurance. If you were to send a recruiter out to look for the perfect KPD, I reckon he would return with Aaron Naughton. He would be far more useful to the club in this role than he is in his current role. And he would still have the option of drifting forward for a quarter or two, as does Moore. At his age, he has the potential to be the keystone of our defence for the next ten years.

    Tim English could be the archetypal utility, ? la Mark Blicavs. Only better. His attributes are excellent marking, kicking, handball and ground play. But he does have weaknesses. Most particularly, his tap work and the limited physicality he applies at ruck contests. (The way we leak possession at too many CBAs is the cause of ongoing frustration.) Why then, do we not maximise his potential by using him in a position that derives maximum benefit from his skills, i.e. as a follower/utility? We could bolster our capability in the areas where Tim is underperforming (tap ruck-work) by including a more traditional style ruckman.

    Jordan Sweet is the perfect adjunct to Tim English. While he has weaknesses in marking and, to a degree, in precision short kicking, he is an excellent tap ruckman who is physically aggressive in ruck contests. Particularly at CBAs. Think back to his rucking stint last year - he couldn’t be pushed around and, at CBAs, he would often follow up the tap contest with strong tackling of oppo midfielders. Not once was there a parade of exits out the front of successive centre bounces. And I bet a few opposition midfielders would be more tired and sore at the end of a game than they are now.

    In the follower/utility role Tim would expose oppo rucks for pace and endurance as he moved up and down the line. He would provide a ready path both out of defence and into attack. His skills and height, coupled with his mobility, would make him a very difficult competitor - as he is now - except in this role he would be in more contests, more often.

    JUH would remain the key forward supported by Lobb and Darcy – with the latter two alternating between playing from the square or moving up to the 50m line/wing to provide a down-the-line option on the opposite of the ground to English.

    The team would look like this:
    JJ* L Jones Gardner
    Richards Naughton Dale
    Baker Liberatore Williams
    A Jones Lobb Smith
    Darcy** JUH Weightman
    Sweet English Bontempelli

    Treloar Daniel Macrae Scott

    *Until JJ is ready, I would play Baker in his role. Like for like in terms of speed. Move Scott to wing and have Duryea on the bench
    ** Until Darcy is ready, I would play Buku in his role
    I like the post and I like the backline. Saturday night is the first time I've entertained the idea of Naughton moving back. Not sure whether I want him there forever or even two weeks but I agree that we should have made the switch on Saturday night and subbed Gardner. I'd like to see Naughton played in the traditional 'Adam Hunter' swingman role on a game by game scenario. It was clear Naughts wasn't going to touch it Saturday night and Gardner also couldn't get near it. Needed to make that change midway through the 3QT at the latest.

    I'm not sold on English as a traditional follower starting in the middle I just think opposition mids are too explosive for a Sweet / English set up. I'm open to a combination of Sweet and English in the same side but I'd use Lobb as the relief and play English permanently at CHF removing Darcy from your side and bringing in an additional runner.

    Good conversation starter.
    But then again, I'm an Internet poster and Bevo is a premiership coach so draw your own conclusions.

  17. #43
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Naughton’s kicking for goal will cost us a GF one day, so before that happens, get him to the backline

    Also, great post Critter.
    I will never see #16 the same!!

  18. #44
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Quote Originally Posted by DOG GOD View Post
    Naughton’s kicking for goal will cost us a GF one day, so before that happens, get him to the backline

    Also, great post Critter.
    Or indirectly by missing the top 4.

    Guy can't forward.

  19. #45
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee Round 12 v Geelong

    Quote Originally Posted by Grantysghost View Post
    Or indirectly by missing the top 4.

    Guy can't forward.
    He's had a couple of years of close to 50 goal seasons, does that not indicate he's a very good forward?
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

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