Grim reading! herald Sun analysis of where we are falling down

[Grantysghost]

MJP do you think JJ's injury has made us more static?

[D Mitchell]

The 3 tall forwards are over rated. Individually, they aren't really all that good, certainly not as good as many think they are. They average around 4 goals a game between them. Taking into account Darcy in the first game and now O'Donnell, it's often 4 talls. The whole 3 talls strategy, isn't working. If Naughton-Lobb-Ugle-Hagan are the best 3 we have, it's time to reconsider.

[mjp]

MJP do you think JJ's injury has made us more static?

100%. 'Cos we have lost a runner behind the ball. He will receive a handball and run a 45 whereas (right now) no-one else does that. Richards has a bit of a 'shifty' style ball in hand but look what happened on the weekend when he went off.

Dale is good when he's doing it but these days he seems to want to receive sprinting forward and continue sprinting forward - in a straight line. Everyone knows where it's going and no matter where the forwards lead the ball is going in ONE place. It's why Daniel is a wild card as he seems to insist on 'seeing' through 180 (360??) degrees...he also turns over a few which (of course) drives everyone crazy but you have to risk it for the biscuit right?

Everyone is different but you need different player types and personalities in the group. And for every Caleb Daniel you need a Gardner or a Roarke Smith who play their role reliably and whose movements are predictable to their team-mates...We have a good group right now - thinks could be a lot worse - and whilst their isn't much depth beyond player 25 or so, that's pretty typical of most lists. I'm not really understanding the criticism of our bottom 5-6 at the moment...our match winners are our match winners and if we want to win big games we need them to be the best players on the ground. I mean, it's been great to see Scott on top of the goal-kickers the past few weeks but it's not like we should be counting on that...we need Naughton, Jamarra and Weightman kicking goals with Bont joining in. How many did those 4 kick last week? That's why we lost.

[bornadog]

..we need Naughton, Jamarra and Weightman kicking goals with Bont joining in. How many did those 4 kick last week? That's why we lost.

Spot on. You can over analyse the game and find faults all over the ground, but at the end of the day if you don't take your opportunities you will fall short. We had over 60 plus more disposals, more cont. poss, a few more clearances but didn't finish off the work.

[DOG GOD]

I guess this is what happens when your #1 fwd is not a genuine fwd.

[Grantysghost]

I guess this is what happens when your #1 fwd is not a genuine fwd.

That's a paradoxical statement DG!

[GVGjr]

I guess this is what happens when your #1 fwd is not a genuine fwd.

In 2021 and 2022 season he's bagged 100 goals and he's our leading goal kicker again this year.
I get the argument that he offers a lot of value as a defender but I don't get the constant commentary that he's not a key forward.
Most clubs would happily play him forward and work hard on improving his goal kicking conversions.

[Danjul]

In 2021 and 2022 season he's bagged 100 goals and he's our leading goal kicker again this year.
I get the argument that he offers a lot of value as a defender but I don't get the constant commentary that he's not a key forward.
Most clubs would happily play him forward and work hard on improving his goal kicking conversions.

His main problem is that he has to work too hard to get the ball.

Look at Lobb against us last year.

7 beautiful incoming kicks gave him 7 marks for 7 kicks leading to 4 goals 2. Didn?t raise a sweat.

He didn?t ruck once.

Specialising as a forward gives the expected result.

On Saturday he (and Naughton) rucked ? and failed as a forward.

If you put a forward in ruck you get *uck !

[bornadog]

His main problem is that he has to work too hard to get the ball.

Look at Lobb against us last year.

7 beautiful incoming kicks gave him 7 marks for 7 kicks leading to 4 goals 2. Didn?t raise a sweat.

He didn?t ruck once.

Specialising as a forward gives the expected result.

On Saturday he (and Naughton) rucked ? and failed as a forward.

If you put a forward in ruck you get *uck !

He is 23 and kicking 50 plus a year- he still maturing and is a genuine forward

[jeemak]

He is 23 and kicking 50 plus a year- he still maturing and is a genuine forward

It's not the point.

The point is we're asking Lobb and Naughton to ruck at times and Danjul thinks they should play solely as forwards, and I suspect, the end game is to suggest Sweet should be getting a game as the number one ruck with English in a support role of sorts somewhere on the ground.

[bornadog]

It's not the point.

The point is we're asking Lobb and Naughton to ruck at times and Danjul thinks they should play solely as forwards, and I suspect, the end game is to suggest Sweet should be getting a game as the number one ruck with English in a support role of sorts somewhere on the ground.

Sorry didn't read the whole thread. Lobb is there as the second ruck/fWd. Agree Naughton should not ruck.

[muzzyahoy]

With all the over complexities of professional sports these days, it's amazing how much basic fundamentals are missing in almost all major sports. Such an emphasis is placed from such a young age on winning, that the fun-damentals of sport have gone missing. The more you understand something, the less complicated it becomes, the more successful you are at it and in turn, the easier it gets.
Watching someone like Bailey Smith tear through the lines, create separation and then butcher the kick takes me back to being about 8 yrs old playing both footy and basketball and my old man telling me "You can't kick straight or complete a layup if you're off balance, and the best way to get your balance is slow down before you kick or shoot the ball, compose yourself then do what it is you want to do"
It's the same when I watch an AFL footballer take one step and kick, try and handball 10 metres without stepping through the ball, calling for the ball without attempting to create separation between themselves and their opponent. It's the most infuriating thing about watching professional sport, watching people do something they've done almost everyday of their youth and adult life and then making mistakes that are fundamental, not ability driven. Over complicating simple games is the bane of professional sports, IMO

[mjp]

Watching someone like Bailey Smith tear through the lines, create separation and then butcher the kick takes me back to being about 8 yrs old playing both footy and basketball and my old man telling me "You can't kick straight or complete a layup if you're off balance, and the best way to get your balance is slow down before you kick or shoot the ball, compose yourself then do what it is you want to do"

I get it, but you don't think the players aren't receiving the same messages that you did?

Playing is hard otherwise we would be celebrating our 350th this week like Buddy.

[muzzyahoy]

What's the old saying, "Those that can, do. Those that can't teach". Probably explains why Spangher is our Forwards coach.

Personally, I think if Naughty moved to the backline, it would remove the temptation for most mids and half forwards to keep bangin' it into a pack.

Also, instituting the "if you're under 6 ft tall, you can't fly for marks in the forward line" rule that most of us grew up with would mean our crumbers actually crumb, and hone those skills.

It's always easy to critique. But also, distance gives perspective, so imagine how much I have now living in Canada, LOL

[EasternWest]

What's the old saying, "Those that can, do. Those that can't teach".

so imagine how much I have now living in Canada, LOL

mjp this sounds like an invitation to the nets.

I wonder what the Canadian equivalent is? Poutine restaurant? Fishing hut?