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  1. #16
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    Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    We lack depth, have no wings, lack specialist small to mid-sized forwards and can't get our best defence on the park yet we apparently should be a top four lock.

    Each year I hear the same thing, and then at the same time see the list of deficiencies across the list trotted out. And at the end of it all we blame the coach.

    Our issues may include the coach but the constant overlooking of our clear deficiencies in personnel drives me nuts.
    The club must rate the list as a strong one if you consider:
    We chased 2 x 30yo players during the trade period and added 3 youngsters via the draft
    We added Baker on the cheap, O'Donnell with some shrewd maneuvering and Poulter at the MSD draft

    That sort of list management indicates that from the clubs perspective we just needed to add some key position depth.
    A lot of clubs over rate their list and perhaps we did as well which is okay but I can certainly understand why some in the media believe we under-performing and why they're now asking the questions.

    I don't know why we haven't quite measure up and it could be the fact that we trained at Skinner and struggled with that or we haven't got the the right set-up in our football department or even that we are missing Dunkley and Hunter more than we care to say but we had bigger expectations and have fallen a bit short so far. It could also be our team selections.

    Finding out what reasons might be behind it is an important part to plan for next year.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  2. #17
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    Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    The club must rate the list as a strong one if you consider:
    We chased 2 x 30yo players during the trade period and added 3 youngsters via the draft
    We added Baker on the cheap, O'Donnell with some shrewd maneuvering and Poulter at the MSD draft

    That sort of list management indicates that from the clubs perspective we just needed to add some key position depth.
    A lot of clubs over rate their list and perhaps we did as well which is okay but I can certainly understand why some in the media believe we under-performing and why they're now asking the questions.

    I don't know why we haven't quite measure up and it could be the fact that we trained at Skinner and struggled with that or we haven't got the the right set-up in our football department or even that we are missing Dunkley and Hunter more than we care to say but we had bigger expectations and have fallen a bit short so far. It could also be our team selections.

    Finding out what reasons might be behind it is an important part to plan for next year.
    We possibly overrate our list, sure. But if the club like the fans are hungry for top four immediately would hitting the draft have changed our position today? Any drafting to impact today would have to have been done prior to 2022.

    Which of our players who could have secured valuable trades would you have been willing to part with at the end of last year? We already lost Dunkley to improve our draft hand and we had to part with Hunter on the cheap, because well, he was risky proposition for anyone taking him on.

    So given we needed to prioritise drafting a defencer which we did, and needed to bring in best available talent thereafter in specific roles, we didn't have a lot of collateral to trade with. Thus, we ended up with who we ended up with, knowing that we needed a second ruck to support Tim.

    Whether we overrated the list or didn't, not sure what other levers could have been pulled to materially change things for the better unless we were prepared to part with a player capable of securing quality, rather than spare parts.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  3. #18
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    Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    Probably. The list manager might be as well, right?

    But my point isn't about whose fault it is, my point is everyone can identify what is wrong with the list but ignores it and just says we should be top four because we have some promising forwards and Naughton, some midfielders who on paper are great but can't really defend or choose not to, and some defenders who can hit targets unless they decide to shit themselves.

    But we should be a lock for top four.
    Yes.
    "It's over. It's all over."

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  5. #19
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    Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

    Quote Originally Posted by EasternWest View Post
    Yes.
    Double yes. Finish the job in two of the games against Port at Port, GCS &/or Sydney and beat a Geelong VFL side and we are a game in the top four. Not outrageously large expectations.
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

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  7. #20
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    Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    Double yes. Finish the job in two of the games against Port at Port, GCS &/or Sydney and beat a Geelong VFL side and we are a game in the top four. Not outrageously large expectations.
    Except the midfielders who can't or won't defend didn't defend, and the defencive personnel that aren't up to scratch got exposed. Our flanks and wingers couldn't handle or use the ball properly meaning we wasted opportunities, and our forwards who can sometimes kick straight but don't often didn't convert. So we didn't win and aren't top four.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  8. #21
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    Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    Except the midfielders who can't or won't defend didn't defend, and the defencive personnel that isn't up to scratch got exposed. So we didn't win and aren't top four.
    I notice you mention this a lot Jee. Are we really that bad at defending from our mids?
    I get the GF, however Melbourne were pretty unstoppable when on that year.

    Guess I'm asking by what metric you measure this rather than any disagreement as I'm not sure.

  9. #22
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    Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

    Quote Originally Posted by Grantysghost View Post
    I notice you mention this a lot Jee. Are we really that bad at defending from our mids?
    I get the GF, however Melbourne were pretty unstoppable when on that year.

    Guess I'm asking by what metric you measure this rather than any disagreement as I'm not sure.
    We seem to be all or nothing at the source and in transition, and it exposes us - particularly the former. The forward running of the opposition and subsequent exit from stoppages often gets us (see the Collingwood game).
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  10. #23
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    Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    We seem to be all or nothing at the source and in transition, and it exposes us - particularly the former. The forward running of the opposition and subsequent exit from stoppages often gets us (see the Collingwood game).
    I watch them warm up most games and they always have the mids together with different colour vests practising both parts.
    They seem to know what to do....
    Its frustrating we can't seem to string things together.
    Connection bw mid and forward is a big issue I see.

    Caleb in there makes sense so the coaches are aware as you say.

    I don't think it's all coaches / game plan or all list. It's a mix, things just aren't clicking.
    Richards, JJ and Jones being injured and as you mentioned poor wings are pretty glaring issues.

    Man I would've liked Blake Acres!

  11. #24
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    Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

    If we’re being honest, we’ve long had a great midfield but have never had the forwards or defenders to mix it with the best sides consistently. This year we made a move which looked great until Jones got injured to address our defence, and our forward line has improved through organic growth while the recruitment of Lobb should have been a difference maker too.

    While I’d like to say we should be a top 4 side, there are lots of quality sides and we still have gaps and a reliance on a few key players to win matches for us.

    Other sides have been better able to cover a lack of star quality by an evenness of contribution, a game style that creates roles and meaningful contributions from many and a few points of difference which we don’t have.

    I’d love to be a top 4 side. I’d love a change of coach to make a significant difference and win us a flag. I’m not sure if either of those things are real.

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  13. #25
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    Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

    Quote Originally Posted by Go_Dogs View Post
    If we’re being honest, we’ve long had a great midfield but have never had the forwards or defenders to mix it with the best sides consistently. This year we made a move which looked great until Jones got injured to address our defence, and our forward line has improved through organic growth while the recruitment of Lobb should have been a difference maker too.

    While I’d like to say we should be a top 4 side, there are lots of quality sides and we still have gaps and a reliance on a few key players to win matches for us.

    Other sides have been better able to cover a lack of star quality by an evenness of contribution, a game style that creates roles and meaningful contributions from many and a few points of difference which we don’t have.

    I’d love to be a top 4 side. I’d love a change of coach to make a significant difference and win us a flag. I’m not sure if either of those things are real.
    I have long said we over rate our team. We lack a few key roles to get us into top 4.
    when I put this to woof posters In a thread, most thought we had the players and didn’t need any specific players.
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  14. #26
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    Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    I have long said we over rate our team. We lack a few key roles to get us into top 4.
    when I put this to woof posters In a thread, most thought we had the players and didn’t need any specific players.
    But you call media commentators flogs or idiots etc who say we are not a top four team? I’m genuinely puzzled.
    More of an In Bruges guy?

  15. #27
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    Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

    GG, Bailey Williams is Blake Acres. Same same.
    More of an In Bruges guy?

  16. #28
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    Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    You're right we have a strong list, where we might differ is the impact on what injuries are having to our results.
    Essentially I think it's a reasonable question for the media to be asking about our performances.
    Yep everyone has injuries. Melbourne have been missing Oliver for what seems like ages and now Fritsch. Collingwood lost McStay, De Goey for 3 weeks, Howe, it happens to everyone. St. Kilda was top 4 for half a aseason with a VFL team.

    Problem is we seem to rely on 12 players way too much because our bottom 6 are poor. We can't spread the load like the top 4 teams. We cant afford to lose Jones and JJ because there is no-one that can come in and fill those roles.

    Is it depth, is it sytems-based? I dunno.
    But then again, I'm an Internet poster and Bevo is a premiership coach so draw your own conclusions.

  17. #29
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    Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

    This is such a rubbish article , as my take is we dont have a top 4 list , where we currently sit on the ladder reflects that. Its just another pot shot headline grabber, have a snide go at our club.

    Our bottom 6 players , cant kick , fumble and lack any evidence of being consistemt solid afl level football players i.e the 100 games : VDM, mcNeil, hannan , west , and the rest are just plagued with injuries. The other factor are those who cannot get a game : Sweet , Buku , Cleary , etc...

    We have LOST games this year becasue we cannot kick. Journalidt write an article on that , and research on why this skills has degraded??? Fix the kicking issues , and our players wont suffer 12 point turn arounds when the ball gets rebound for goal ... its just too exhausting for them

    The club should play the rest of the list and see who we can delist sooner than later.

  18. #30
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    Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

    The troubling lack of depth and an inability to competently develop new recruits who aren't freakish talents into reliable regulars is a recurring theme and there's few things more miserable than match committee threads that necessarily devolve into a regurgitation of the same handful of reheated candidates who neither deserve, demand, nor seize a spot. Our last 4-6 picked feels like it's been a fruitless revolving door for some time now.

    Digressing, expectation is a cursed thing but barring an epiphany it's hard to argue against an epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'.
    BORDERLINE FLYING

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