What makes a good footballer?

[merantau]

Over the years we've all seen lots of footballers who we think are going to have solid careers but end up not making it. They have the physical attributes and skills but for whatever reasons they don't translate into good games played at the highest level.

This year I've seen a fair bit of junior football (U9s, U12s matches and training) and I've seen a lot of kids playing kick to kick and horsing around as kids do on the side lines at local footy games. And even at this early age you observe things that make some kids stand out - things that you can't teach.

I'm interested to hear what others think these unteachables are.

[1eyedog]

Early skills and early wills.

I've just finished coaching an u/12 team they had a good crack and made a prelim and were in front at half time but lost the game. Finished dead last last year.

I have one player who is an absolute inside beast, our best player athletically, strength wise and skill wise in the team but dicks around at training and won't do fitness based stuff. Gases out in games and can't make contests.

They lost the B&F by 10 votes to a really good defensive player who tackles like an adult and works harder than anyone I've seen. Not as dynamic or skilled as my - so called by the parents best player - but more effective.

At this age their will sets them apart.

[angelopetraglia]

I think at an early age you are looking for natural talent with the ball in hand (good kick, good hands, doesn't fumble i.e. great hand eye coordination, normally these kids are good at any sport they touch) with an appetitie for the contest (good skills without a strong will to win or get their own footy normally means they self select out of Aussie Rules and into something like basketball or cricket or something with less body contact i.e. with boys you see this as testosterone starts to kick in around 13).

As, they get into their mid teen years they need some other physical assets if they are going to make it at the elite level.

So tick. Great hand eye cooridnation and an appetitie for the contest. That is your permission to play. Then you need at least one, but most probably a few of the below to make it.

-Genuine pace, stands out when watching the game that they can break out of a contest. The look quick to the eye.
-Great endurance, can cover the ground easily, natural runner.
-Time freezes when they have the ball in hand, they never appear to be rushed, intelligent decision maker with ball in hand.
-Great strength in close at the contest. Hard to tackle. Tackle well. Enjoy the physcial componenet of the game. Natural ball winner.
-Good height. The smaller you are, the more you need the above assets to be considered at the elite level.

[merantau]

I've just finished coaching an u/12 team they had a good crack and made a prelim and were in front at half time but lost the game. Finished dead last last year.




That's a big turnaround. Sounds like a lot of work was put in to get that result. Didn't get the bacon but came out winners in my estimation.

[1eyedog]

I've just finished coaching an u/12 team they had a good crack and made a prelim and were in front at half time but lost the game. Finished dead last last year.




That's a big turnaround. Sounds like a lot of work was put in to get that result. Didn't get the bacon but came out winners in my estimation.

Yeah their EF win was their GF this year. Their coach last yeah just let them run around, fair enough. This year they asked me to teach them something different so I taught them a Bevo full ground press, sent a wing forward and a wing back and always tried to add +1 to the contest.

I out coached Andrew Carrazzo this year lol and got the win. He's a competitive bastard always whining about the 15 year old umpires. It's actually mostly about motivation and belief at this level but it makes things easier if they can hold a shape.

It's true though all the league rep players are athletically gifted who run and bounce and kick the ball a long way. A team of Nathan Eagletons. Positional players don't really get a look in. I had better positional players than some of the oppo midfielders who got selected to train / rep the league. The rep leagues just fill a team with these types but often it's with players that can't defend or can't win their own ball or both. It's actually lazy.

Many smaller, better players which read the play well and win their own ball often sit out of rep leagues and don't get invitations to the league B&F awards, but you just know they're real footballers who can play. There is so much emphasis on runners who can kick.

I have a great half back who kicks well, defends brilliantly, is tough as hell and cleans up everything but because they're not playing midfield, not a look in at league level. Also have a small forward who kicked the most goals in the division, again no invitation.

Good footy brains aren't identified / respected at 12/14s.

[mjp]

There is so much emphasis on runners who can kick.

Well...this part is tricky 'cos as you go up through the ranks if you can't run and can't kick, well - it isn't that you CAN'T make it, but you have to do something else that is 'uber elite' in order to make it. So I totally get this part of it.

I have a great half back who kicks well, defends brilliantly, is tough as hell and cleans up everything but because they're not playing midfield, not a look in at league level.

Interesting. Most talent id people I know (and this is into the state pathway's) would be VERY keen on a half-back who can either:
1/. Defend 1-v-1 vs the oppo best players, size and shape be damned.
2/. Identify the opportunity to create a 2v1 and either become the interceptor or spoiler...

If your player does either of those things, chat to the talent id people about it and ASK what else they are looking for.

Also have a small forward who kicked the most goals in the division, again no invitation.

See previous comment. IF your small forward is a leading forward, I get it - no demand for small, leading forwards no matter how many goals they kick. If they are a genuine small (aka crumbing) forward, then:

1/. If he/she is kicking it well + holding his/her feet under pressure, well - if the scoreboard is ticking that's not nothing!
2/. Small forward is a tough spot and a player like this is going to need to spit up and through the mids to stay on the field at rep level given most SQUADS will only include 1x small forward...so he should be up there for 25% of the time anyway...

With the press + playing an extras up at the ball + dropping a winger behind - well...I don't think you should be doing that at u12 level. That stuff is banned in the talent pathways and you're not setting them up to succeed by getting them to play with an outnumber.

[1eyedog]

Well...this part is tricky 'cos as you go up through the ranks if you can't run and can't kick, well - it isn't that you CAN'T make it, but you have to do something else that is 'uber elite' in order to make it. So I totally get this part of it.




Interesting. Most talent id people I know (and this is into the state pathway's) would be VERY keen on a half-back who can either:
1/. Defend 1-v-1 vs the oppo best players, size and shape be damned.
2/. Identify the opportunity to create a 2v1 and either become the interceptor or spoiler...

If your player does either of those things, chat to the talent id people about it and ASK what else they are looking for.



See previous comment. IF your small forward is a leading forward, I get it - no demand for small, leading forwards no matter how many goals they kick. If they are a genuine small (aka crumbing) forward, then:

1/. If he/she is kicking it well + holding his/her feet under pressure, well - if the scoreboard is ticking that's not nothing!
2/. Small forward is a tough spot and a player like this is going to need to spit up and through the mids to stay on the field at rep level given most SQUADS will only include 1x small forward...so he should be up there for 25% of the time anyway...

With the press + playing an extras up at the ball + dropping a winger behind - well...I don't think you should be doing that at u12 level. That stuff is banned in the talent pathways and you're not setting them up to succeed by getting them to play with an outnumber.

Thanks for the advice Mike, appreciate it. Interested in your comments re. +1 and dropping wings behind / in front of the ball I wasn't aware of that. You might be interested to know that I know of two other clubs in our Div who do this.

I'll definitely be revisiting it next season based on your comments and I get playing players in their positions.

The small forward is my kid. Smart player i.e works off oppo and knows how to find space deep, great skills (mark / kick) but playing a year under age and not ready for the midfield for a few reasons. Definitely a crumber before a lead up player.

Will seek further advice on our half back and look at progressing to spoiling / intercepts as they progress next season. Not at this level yet but next year will be different as it gets more serious.

[jeemak]

Dedicated parents, mostly.

[1eyedog]

Dedicated parents, mostly.

Yeah that's a thing.

[Grantysghost]

St Kevin's, Scotch, Xavier.

[jeemak]

Great footballers come from great families and great schools. Shifter Sheehan told me so!

Cynicism aside, confidence instilled into a player early is a massive thing. Positive reinforcement used to be something that was only given based on pure positive outcomes in the anything goes eighties and nineties (and probably before that).

[1eyedog]

Well...this part is tricky 'cos as you go up through the ranks if you can't run and can't kick, well - it isn't that you CAN'T make it, but you have to do something else that is 'uber elite' in order to make it. So I totally get this part of it.




Interesting. Most talent id people I know (and this is into the state pathway's) would be VERY keen on a half-back who can either:
1/. Defend 1-v-1 vs the oppo best players, size and shape be damned.
2/. Identify the opportunity to create a 2v1 and either become the interceptor or spoiler...

If your player does either of those things, chat to the talent id people about it and ASK what else they are looking for.



See previous comment. IF your small forward is a leading forward, I get it - no demand for small, leading forwards no matter how many goals they kick. If they are a genuine small (aka crumbing) forward, then:

1/. If he/she is kicking it well + holding his/her feet under pressure, well - if the scoreboard is ticking that's not nothing!
2/. Small forward is a tough spot and a player like this is going to need to spit up and through the mids to stay on the field at rep level given most SQUADS will only include 1x small forward...so he should be up there for 25% of the time anyway...

With the press + playing an extras up at the ball + dropping a winger behind - well...I don't think you should be doing that at u12 level. That stuff is banned in the talent pathways and you're not setting them up to succeed by getting them to play with an outnumber.

I should also state that without the press and +1s these kids would likely be running around in circles again like headless chooks and that's a fact.

Success can be measured in many ways and finishing dead last in 2022 and making a Prelim this year was a big thing both for the players and their families. They had two wins last year, finished on the bottom with some 100 point thumpings. Players and parents want positive outcomes for their kids.

FWIW at this age there wasn't much care that a winger was moved back / forward at times throughout the season. What was most important was the team got to sing the song more times than they didn't, they won a final so finally got to experience the joy of that and also built a platform of belief they will bring into next year.

[mjp]

I should also state that without the press and +1s these kids would likely be running around in circles again like headless chooks and that's a fact.

Totally believe you mate.

Giving structure helps no end...amazing what players who KNOW what is being asked of them can deliver whereas those just 'running out and having fun' pretty soon realise that getting your butt kicked is not that much fun.

My 16 year old plays SOME WAFL colts footy (4-games this year - for a club other than the one I coach) and the rest of the season with his local club (Y11/12 comp). He laughs (a lot) about the fact that when he plays local footy there are 'run with' roles, spares behind the ball, defensive anchors etc whereas at state level none of that is allowed...

There are so many problems with local footy AND pathway footy right now...

Honestly, I'm just glad to hear you're coaching and I hope you stick at it. Nothing beats playing - NOTHING - but helping a kid/group of kids go from 'battlers' to confident and successful is pretty rewarding...often (of course) you have to define success in ways that don't involve premiership points but that's all part of it!

[1eyedog]

Totally believe you mate.

Giving structure helps no end...amazing what players who KNOW what is being asked of them can deliver whereas those just 'running out and having fun' pretty soon realise that getting your butt kicked is not that much fun.

My 16 year old plays SOME WAFL colts footy (4-games this year - for a club other than the one I coach) and the rest of the season with his local club (Y11/12 comp). He laughs (a lot) about the fact that when he plays local footy there are 'run with' roles, spares behind the ball, defensive anchors etc whereas at state level none of that is allowed...

There are so many problems with local footy AND pathway footy right now...

Honestly, I'm just glad to hear you're coaching and I hope you stick at it. Nothing beats playing - NOTHING - but helping a kid/group of kids go from 'battlers' to confident and successful is pretty rewarding...often (of course) you have to define success in ways that don't involve premiership points but that's all part of it!

Appreciate the words. It's rewarding but sucks up many hours. It's actually hard work and we are volunteers at the end of the day.

It's a challenge finding a balance between meeting the expectations of parents (and kids to a lesser degree) re. successful on field outcomes and ensuring participation always comes first.

The Foundation and Level 1 AFL coaching programs, as you'd know, are all about participation. It's so easy to get sucked into results-driven coaching. The joy of seeing the kids win a game drives that but in reality the kids are there for many reasons and most just want to play with their mates, form new friendships and build confidence playing a contact sport.

Winning actually comes after this in most instances, although you always have two or three players who just want to win at any cost.

Can I ask you why State level football is so different from local footy re. how it's approached tactically? It would be interesting to know as I have a few parents who are 100% committed to getting their kids as far as they can go.

[mjp]

Can I ask you why State level football is so different from local footy re. how it's approached tactically? It would be interesting to know as I have a few parents who are 100% committed to getting their kids as far as they can go.

Because they want state level footy to be a 'players game' and not a coaches game. Things like the 3+2 anti-density rule, no run withs, no players behind the contest etc are all designed to create 1-v-1 footy where the PLAYERS dictate the game vs the coaches.

Things were getting a bit out of control tactically back in the late 2000's and particularly in the champs circa 2010-2012 (sad to say I was part of this) and in 2013 the anti-density stuff was trialled and the no tags/no-one behind the ball was instituted.

Anti-density went live in 2014 and has been used in VIC and WA since. SA still don't play it but have too in the champs.

I have some stories to tell about all this...if I get time later this week I might start typing.