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  1. #136
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    Re: Best/Starting 23, Round 1 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Joe View Post
    While O'Driscoll certainly has the speed we will wait on how that plays out in game smarts as well.

    I am very concerned for Artie Jones as he seems to lack the footy nous to go with the athletic attributes. I see more likely to make a contribution in a defensive role. His best VFL efforts where when he went to half back. I would seriously be aiming at the lock down small defender because he does have the athleticism for that role.

    Charlie Clarke showed some forward smarts as the year progressed and is the one I think might be the crumbing forward we seek.
    Agree on both points. Though I think Artie does have good footy nous just lacked confidence with his size difference in attack. Probably a little confused at times also. His vfl game against Willie when switched to defence halfway through third quarter was very exciting to watch and I believe could play that role at AFL level. Will need to improve his 1on 1contest though.
    On Clarke he seems our most natural forward. Kicked some great goals in the second half of the season, what stood out more was kicking inside 50m and his ability to create goals for others. His tackling also got better as the year got on. One tackle that stood out was the final against box hill chased 3 players down as they transitioned the ball and caused the turn over resulting in a Sam Darcy goal. Bevo was delighted with it, I was at the bench when Bevo come down to chat to Clarke as he come to the bench. So I also have high hopes for Clarke. Though him getting super fit is the key. It?s the toughest position on the ground.

  2. #137
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    Re: Best/Starting 23, Round 1 2024

    My major concern maximising talent wise is how we use Macrae/Baz/Adz. We have Bont and Libba taking up a lot of CBAs, we struggle without them there. Others will go in at times as well. It means one of the trio will see v limited CBAs week to week and another will be will pinch hit a bit. What do we do with them?

  3. #138
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    Re: Best/Starting 23, Round 1 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Jones View Post
    My major concern maximising talent wise is how we use Macrae/Baz/Adz. We have Bont and Libba taking up a lot of CBAs, we struggle without them there. Others will go in at times as well. It means one of the trio will see v limited CBAs week to week and another will be will pinch hit a bit. What do we do with them?
    For all our much feted midfield the results over the past two years hasn’t been evident. Time to share the load now with the recruitment
    of Harmes and Sanders and by playing Macrae alternating with Bailey Smith in the midfield. Bont could become another Petracca by spending more time forward as should Treloar being both proven goal-kickers. Time to share the load without the over reliance on Bont
    and Libba.

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  5. #139
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    Re: Best/Starting 23, Round 1 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuggety Back Pocket View Post
    For all our much feted midfield the results over the past two years hasn’t been evident. Time to share the load now with the recruitment
    of Harmes and Sanders and by playing Macrae alternating with Bailey Smith in the midfield. Bont could become another Petracca by spending more time forward as should Treloar being both proven goal-kickers. Time to share the load without the over reliance on Bont
    and Libba.
    Yep, I hear you. Is Adz a midfield goal kicker or a player who can offer something when actually forward? Would be great if he could offer abit there consistently. What do Macrae and/or Baz do when not forward? I think one of those would have to play primarily out of the CBAs or both share load a bit.

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  7. #140
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    Re: Best/Starting 23, Round 1 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by meenies View Post
    here goes for version 1 of plenty.....

    Coffield L Jones Gallagher
    Richards Darcy Dale
    B Smith Bont Poulter
    West Naughton Sanders
    Lobb JUH Weightman

    English Treloar Libba

    Macrae, Daniel, Khamis or JOD, Harmes

    Sub: Scott

    I have left out JJ as I don't think he will be ready fitness wise.
    I like Freijah, so would not be surprised if I promoted him in later versions of this. And Garcia down back if fit.
    Have I missed something? Why would JJ not be ready, he's not injured as far as I am aware?

  8. #141
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    Re: Best/Starting 23, Round 1 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by meenies View Post
    here goes for version 1 of plenty.....

    Coffield L Jones Gallagher
    Richards Darcy Dale
    B Smith Bont Poulter
    West Naughton Sanders
    Lobb JUH Weightman

    English Treloar Libba

    Macrae, Daniel, Khamis or JOD, Harmes

    Sub: Scott

    I have left out JJ as I don't think he will be ready fitness wise.
    I like Freijah, so would not be surprised if I promoted him in later versions of this. And Garcia down back if fit.
    I really can't come up with a team as there are too many to fit in.

    Didn't know there was any issue with JJ fitness wise
    Bailey Williams probably ahead of Poulter.
    Would definitely have JOD ahead of Khamis
    Think Ryan Gardner gets overlooked by too many as he is the best defending tall when fit. He had lots of interruptions last year fitness wise, but was high up in the B&F in 22

    I do like your effort.
    Life is to be Enjoyed not Endured

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  10. #142
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    Re: Best/Starting 23, Round 1 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe Man View Post
    Have I missed something? Why would JJ not be ready, he's not injured as far as I am aware?
    He's missed a couple of sessions plus has mainly been in the rehab group. I don't believe it's anything serious.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  11. #143
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    Re: Best/Starting 23, Round 1 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Joe View Post
    I really can't come up with a team as there are too many to fit in.
    Which sounds good on paper and usually gets us excited in the pre-season. But I think the problem we have/have had the last couple of years is we have too many to fit in some positions and a real dearth of quality in other positions.

    That's why I'm reaching and trying to include players like Bedendo and Clarke in some of my teams while other are trying to get Smith or Treloar (even West I think I saw in one team) on the wing and stacking the forward line with mids. Either we innovate and get buy in to use the on paper quality we have to it's full potential or we stagnate and seem to underperform again.

  12. #144
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    Re: Best/Starting 23, Round 1 2024

    Say we are at full strength, rough estimates of our CBAs? There's 300% CBA time to share around...

    - Bont av 81% this year and went alright! Would be cool to be able to see him go fwd a bit like Trac but we really struggle without him there (and he is the best player in the league playing in the middle)
    - Libba av 78% and needs to play in the middle if he is healthy enough to play. Like Bont, we really struggle without him in the guts

    So that leaves 140% for the rest and we have Adz, Macrae, Baz, Sanders, possibly Daniel (av 19%) and Harmes (if tagging there).

    How do we split that time up? Where do Adz, Macrae and/or Baz play when not inside? What about Sanders (seems like he is in)? That quartette would have to spend majority of combined time outside the middle. I think footy is changing with inside mids. If they aren't guns/playing majority of time inside, they are a bit like a 2nd ruck. Need to offer actual value elsewhere.

    I think us playing small forwards who aren't suited to it/just trying to fit in all the mids/mids really unhappy to play there is a big concern in terms of maximising our talent. It's a bit reverse Moneyball atm for mine. We have a lot of 'names' to fit in, but are we filling in actual roles to help the side win footy games or looking good on paper?

  13. #145
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    Re: Best/Starting 23, Round 1 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Jones View Post
    Say we are at full strength, rough estimates of our CBAs? There's 300% CBA time to share around...

    - Bont av 81% this year and went alright! Would be cool to be able to see him go fwd a bit like Trac but we really struggle without him there (and he is the best player in the league playing in the middle)
    - Libba av 78% and needs to play in the middle if he is healthy enough to play. Like Bont, we really struggle without him in the guts

    So that leaves 140% for the rest and we have Adz, Macrae, Baz, Sanders, possibly Daniel (av 19%) and Harmes (if tagging there).

    How do we split that time up? Where do Adz, Macrae and/or Baz play when not inside? What about Sanders (seems like he is in)? That quartette would have to spend majority of combined time outside the middle. I think footy is changing with inside mids. If they aren't guns/playing majority of time inside, they are a bit like a 2nd ruck. Need to offer actual value elsewhere.

    I think us playing small forwards who aren't suited to it/just trying to fit in all the mids/mids really unhappy to play there is a big concern in terms of maximising our talent. It's a bit reverse Moneyball atm for mine. We have a lot of 'names' to fit in, but are we filling in actual roles to help the side win footy games or looking good on paper?
    Super coach a little it seems. Based on last season anyway. Hope that changes and hopefully Clarke and maybe another small forward can force the change to have 6 natural forwards up there. I’m most worried about Macrae unless he can reinvent himself somewhere else ala Matty Boyd.
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

  14. #146
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    Re: Best/Starting 23, Round 1 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Jones View Post

    I think us playing small forwards who aren't suited to it/just trying to fit in all the mids/mids really unhappy to play there is a big concern in terms of maximising our talent. It's a bit reverse Moneyball atm for mine. We have a lot of 'names' to fit in, but are we filling in actual roles to help the side win footy games or looking good on paper?
    Looking good on paper.

    If the last 2 years have taught us anything it's that filling the forward line with mids who don't hit the scoreboard or chase isn't going to help you beat the good teams.

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  16. #147
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    Re: Best/Starting 23, Round 1 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
    Looking good on paper.

    If the last 2 years have taught us anything it's that filling the forward line with mids who don't hit the scoreboard or chase isn't going to help you beat the good teams.
    Yep. I think footy is going away from that in general too anyway. It's why I don't see going with Nick Watson as such a risk and why maybe going a Sanders is a bigger risk than ever (not going him specifically, seems like a gun). Players who are limited to being inside mids really need to have as many CBAs as possible. Do Baz, Adz and/or Macrae offer us much at all outside of time as inside mids? They aren't just 'resting' there, looks like at least about half of their TOG will be non-CBA/inside mid.

  17. #148
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    Re: Best/Starting 23, Round 1 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
    Looking good on paper.

    If the last 2 years have taught us anything it's that filling the forward line with mids who don't hit the scoreboard or chase isn't going to help you beat the good teams.
    In the same time Brisbane have done well and their list and best 22 have some genuine mid sized forwards who occasionally help out in the midfield. We can't be playing midfielders there unless they're capable of kicking goals.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  18. #149
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    Re: Best/Starting 23, Round 1 2024

    The first thing I hope we do is put this Macrae at HFF experiment in the bin. I know he drifts up to the stoppage after the centre bounce to create an extra but I think this hurts us more than helps us. He's no threat inside F50 so if I was the opposition coach I'd just instruct his opponent to let him go up to the stoppage and sit in front of Naughton and Jamarra to create an outnumber in our F50. So in my opinion it leaves us with one of two options:

    1. We move him back to a full time winger - He played on the wing for the first few years as a winger and did reasonably well. He generally makes good decisions and I think he'd give us good delivery going inside F50. The only downside to this could be his defensive work rate.

    2. We move Bont to HFF (not necessarily permanently) and put Macrae back on the ball. The upside of this is Bont is a significant threat inside F50 and could create some serious headaches for the defense. I don't think we lose too much in the midfield if Macrae (or Smith) start in there over Bont, but I think we have significant upside with Bont inside F50 over them.

    So with that in mind, I'll throw a bit of a different starting lineup which I'm happy for you all to critique.

    Coffield Jones JJ
    Richards JOD Dale
    Macrae Libba Williams
    Bont JUH West
    Lobb Naughton Weightman

    English Treloar Smith

    Interchange: Daniel Khamis Sanders Harmes

    Sub: Scott


    I think Darcy is in our best 22 but I'd much rather him play a month straight in the VFL before coming into AFL. I think his body is still a year off being AFL ready but I'd be happy for him to come in if his form demands it.

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  20. #150
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    Re: Best/Starting 23, Round 1 2024

    Was enjoyable watching this afternoon’s session. Good to see a few supporters there also.
    Our running this pre season seems to be a lot more of a focus than last few season its going to hold us in good stead in those tighter games.

    The two players that stand out the most are Darcy and Lobb both taking some great contested marking around the ground during match sim drills. Our ball movement also seems it going to be a bit quicker and direct.
    I concur on what a few have said about sander. Looks a class act tough and skilful and very level headed. Not sure how early he plays but will play a fair bit of senior footy next year. Not sure if we will see any of the other 4 drafted but all look promising especially Croft. He can be Darcy Moore mark 2 no doubt.
    The 3 draftees from last year have all progressed buss looking fitter and stronger it’s his one on one defending that’s my only concern but that will come.
    gags will play 10 plus senior games and with a bit of confidence could become an important player for us.
    Now with Clarke I’m confused with some of the reports because every time I watch him he is just about the hardest runner on the ground. He can be that high half fwd in the brad close mould for us. Gets up the ground pushes back hard and will put great pressure on to lock it in. One thing that also has stood out at training which I noticed last year in vfl games he does a lot of blocking and bullocking work against the key defenders to help them
    lead and get space. The game isn’t also ways about possessions. Anyway his role is something out team needs desperately and I think he can be the one if he consistently to have a strong pre season.
    of the senior group CD and Treloar stood out with the work rate and voice Libba also being libba.

    The list is in a pretty good spot, competition for spots will be hot & its building in the right direction. Stay healthy and we play finals consistently over next few seasons.

    Cleary Jones Richard’s
    Dale Darcy JJ
    Pouter Bont Williams
    West Jamarra Treloar
    Cody naughts lobb
    English libba smith
    harmes coffield sanders cd Clarke

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