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  1. #1
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    Robbo: Why Tim English isn't worth $1 million to the Western Bulldogs

    Robbo: Why Tim English isn?t worth $1 million to the Western Bulldogs



    Tim English is coming off an All-Australian season, but is he really worth $1 million a year? MARK ROBINSON says he isn?t to the Western Bulldogs.

    Tim English might be worth $1 million-a-season at West Coast, but he isn?t at the Western Bulldogs.

    It makes for an intriguing next few months, as both English and the Bulldogs decide if his future beyond 2024 is at the kennel.

    The Bulldogs can either pay him what he wants or take a stand, knowing that if it?s the latter, the real possibility is they could lose him through free agency.

    Would that be so catastrophic?

    They want him to stay, but it has to be at their price and not his.

    A Bulldogs package of $750,000 base with incentives could bunk him up, but for a bloke who finished seventh in the 2023 best and fairest, an unconditional $1 million salary to stay is difficult to rationalise.

    Put it this way, when the whips were cracking in the second half of last season, and the Bulldogs were striving to play finals, English polled coaches? votes in just one of the final nine games.

    Coaches? votes generally have a spread of between six and eight players in each game and, according to the men who know who was a threat, English only once was a significant contributor in that period.

    A million-dollar player can?t just be a solid contributor, he has to be a game-changer.

    Too often English is not. It?s why the million-dollar price tag doesn?t equate to performance.

    In the wacky world of player salaries, Kieren Briggs from the GWS Giants will earn about $350,000 this year.

    The bustling Briggs doesn?t have the ruckman?s finesse, which English possesses at centre bounces, but their performances comparatively suggest Briggs is vastly underpaid ? or English will be overpaid.

    Briggs doubled English in the average clearance count last year, won more contested possessions and marginally trailed in score involvements, although English did kick 16 goals to Briggs? four.

    Rowan Marshall?s stats at St Kilda stack up even better against English, and Marshall is an estimated $750,000 player.

    The Bulldogs say they are comfortable with discussions with English?s management.

    ?There is definite confidence that Tim will remain at the Bulldogs,? chief executive Ameet Bains told afl.com.au this week.

    ?Sam Power continues to have ongoing and current discussions with Tim?s manager, Andrew McDougall. We haven?t received any indication other than Tim being happy at the club.??

    In other words, Bains doesn?t know if English is staying or going.

    A restricted free agent at the end of the season, popular opinion has West Coast coming for the 26-year-old. If that happens, the Bulldogs can match the Eagles? offer (they won?t), which then means a trade ensues.

    If the Eagles finish bottom, the Dogs will ask for the No.1 pick in return.

    The Bulldogs need midfielders. The game seems to have zoomed past Jack Macrae; Bailey Smith might leave; and Tom Liberatore, back in the Dogs? leadership group, is 31 years old.

    English for the best midfielder on the draft boards is not a loss, and with Sam Darcy a possible English replacement, or at least working in tandem with Rory Lobb, the Dogs aren?t without ruck options.

    Another gun onballer ? to join this year?s first-round draftee Ryley Sanders ? would also replenish the middle of the ground.

    The Dogs have hand, but they also have issues.

    Marcus Bontempelli is on $1 million-plus and deservedly so. Aaron Naughton is in for eight years on gold coin and Jamarra Ugle-Hagan is the next cab off the rank, meaning those three players alone will take close to $3 million of the $17.7 million salary cap in 2025.

    That leaves English and Bailey Smith. Can the Dogs afford to keep both of them?

    Not if they have to pay English his asking price.

    English is a good player, the All-Australian ruckman last year, but to think he is likely to be paid more than Melbourne captain Max Gawn, the competitions? best ruckman of the past decade, is a little mind-boggling, notwithstanding the largesses of free agency.

    Especially so when you peruse recent premiership teams and who they had as their No.1 ruckmen.

    Are ruckmen really worth $1 million a year?

  2. #2
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    Re: Robbo: Why Tim English isn?t worth $1 million to the Western Bulldogs

    I think Slobbo is ignoring the salary cap uplift over the next couple of seasons.

  3. #3
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    Re: Robbo: Why Tim English isn?t worth $1 million to the Western Bulldogs

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe Man View Post
    I think Slobbo is ignoring the salary cap uplift over the next couple of seasons.
    On purpose?

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    Re: Robbo: Why Tim English isn?t worth $1 million to the Western Bulldogs

    He is right

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    Re: Robbo: Why Tim English isn?t worth $1 million to the Western Bulldogs

    I'm happy to stand firm on Timmy, provided we have a replacement lined up if he walks.

    Given we have Lobb and from next year, a more developed Darcy as excellent number 2 forward/rucks, we need a mature no 1 ruck lined up and we could get away with a 60-70% TOG bash and crash type.
    Ned Moyle would be my first pick (Suns have Witts and just took Read at the pointy end of the draft) and Preuss would surely jump at the chance to be a no 1 ruck as a 2-3 year stop gap solution.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

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  8. #6
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    Re: Robbo: Why Tim English isn?t worth $1 million to the Western Bulldogs

    I think the point about the coaches votes is decent.

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    Re: Robbo: Why Tim English isn't worth $1 million to the Western Bulldogs

    It's interesting how it's OK for him to be overrated and worth a lot of money on the open market, but to us isn't worth 80-90% of what he might get even though we've shown over time he's exactly the type of ruck we are looking for and value. And don't have a viable, long term replacement who can step into his role in 2025.

    The same pundits who suggest Lobb should be the interim fill in are the same people who will lambaste his performance given first ruck isn't his go. Those same pundits think Darcy is ready to go even though as Mofra has pointed out previously, he's not been able to get on the park outside of a few flashes.

    That's all without thinking about who is available, and who our coach might want to actually play, in replacement of English which is a complete unknown to us right now.

    So with all of that, irrespective of the coaches votes or whatever, I'd say the read on this is arse about and English is worth a lot more to us right now than is being touted. Our risk profile is off the charts, and with risk comes cost.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

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  11. #8
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    Re: Robbo: Why Tim English isn't worth $1 million to the Western Bulldogs

    Briggs? who the F is Briggs. Tim beats him in every department

    Player Statistics Comparison
    Timothy English Name Kieren Briggs
    Western Bulldogs Team GWS Giants
    Ruck Position Ruck
    108 Career Games 26
    South Fremantle Origin Pennant Hills
    August 10, 1997 Date of Birth October 6, 1999
    26yr 6mth Age 24yr 4mth
    208cm Height 201cm
    107kg Weight 108kg
    2016 National Draft Last Drafted In 2018 National Draft
    Round 1, Pick #19 Last Draft Position Round 2, Pick #34
    Western Bulldogs Last Drafted By GWS Giants
    2023 Stats for Season 2023
    23 Games 17
    11.2 Kicks 9.7
    7.9 Handballs 5.7
    19.1 Disposals 15.4
    6.3 Marks 2.8
    0.7 Goals 0.2
    0.2 Behinds 0.3
    4.3 Tackles 4.5
    31.2 Hitouts 25.9
    3.2 Inside 50s 3.8
    0.3 Goal Assists 0.4
    1.8 Frees For 1.3
    1.5 Frees Against 1.2
    9.2 Contested Possessions 10.7
    11.0 Uncontested Possessions 4.3
    13.9 Effective Disposals 9.3
    72.8% Disposal Efficiency % 60.4%
    3.6 Clangers 3.4
    1.3 Contested Marks 0.7
    0.6 Marks Inside 50 0.2
    3.3 Clearances 6.5
    1.9 Rebound 50s 1.8
    4.3 One Percenters 3.5
    0.3 Bounces 0
    85.9 Time On Ground % 75.6
    1.2 Centre Clearances 2.5
    2.1 Stoppage Clearances 4.0
    5.3 Score Involvements 4.4
    255.0 Metres Gained 263.4
    3.3 Turnovers 2.8
    4.3 Intercepts 2.6
    0.4 Tackles Inside 50 0.4
    $1,071,000 AFL Fantasy Price $849,000
    118.7 AFL Fantasy Score 92.2
    $683,000 Supercoach Price $573,800
    128.0 Supercoach Score 105.2
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

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  13. #9
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    Re: Robbo: Why Tim English isn't worth $1 million to the Western Bulldogs

    A players worth is what the market will pay, and Tim would get $1 million in the market.
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  14. #10
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    Re: Robbo: Why Tim English isn't worth $1 million to the Western Bulldogs

    People.

    Robbo is tapping into a sentiment the analytics pick up from socials.

    They get spoon fed the "sentiments".

    Kieren Briggs is the Jordan Sweet of Jordan Sweets. That comparison wasn't accidental.

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  16. #11
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    Re: Robbo: Why Tim English isn't worth $1 million to the Western Bulldogs

    What do we make of this interview https://x.com/cleary_mitch/status/17...y1lhUs8p7uzZ_A

    He doesn?t sound too committed to Dogs ?

  17. #12
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    Re: Robbo: Why Tim English isn't worth $1 million to the Western Bulldogs

    Quote Originally Posted by angelopetraglia View Post
    What do we make of this interview https://x.com/cleary_mitch/status/17...y1lhUs8p7uzZ_A

    He doesn?t sound too committed to Dogs ?
    Macrae dumped...

    Flogs.

  18. #13
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    Re: Robbo: Why Tim English isn't worth $1 million to the Western Bulldogs

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    A players worth is what the market will pay, and Tim would get $1 million in the market.
    It's ok BAD we have a long line of back up rucks so he's not worth that to the Dogs.

    -Hi I'm a bot I have worked out what nuffies on social media want to hear and spoon feed them that narrative.

  19. #14
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    Re: Robbo: Why Tim English isn't worth $1 million to the Western Bulldogs

    Quote Originally Posted by angelopetraglia View Post
    What do we make of this interview https://x.com/cleary_mitch/status/17...y1lhUs8p7uzZ_A

    He doesn?t sound too committed to Dogs ?
    I'm leaving it up to my manager so you don't ask me anymore questions on it.

    If Jacko was dumped, why was Libba only promoted instead of whatever the opposite of dumped is?
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  20. #15
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    Re: Robbo: Why Tim English isn?t worth $1 million to the Western Bulldogs

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe Man View Post
    I think Slobbo is ignoring the salary cap uplift over the next couple of seasons.
    It's the reason why that within 2 years there will be close to 40 players on million dollar contracts. At the moment we will stand out because of Bont, Naughton, Tim and Marra but other teams will have that challenge.
    Going on the news report from Ch9 the Eagles have either offered a multi year million dollar contract or will make that offer.
    I'm sure the club and Sam Power will do what they can but within reason and if Tim really wants to head home and play for a bottom club that won't get better quickly then there isn't much we can do about it.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

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