Robbo: Why Tim English isn't worth $1 million to the Western Bulldogs

[Sedat]

Tim is worth every cent of $1 million plus. He is more than just a ruckman, he is a midfielder in a 208cm body. He can float back and take marks, he can be parked in the forward line if need be, and moves around the ground with ease and his ruck work has put him in the top 5 of the AFL (top 3 for hit outs to advantage).

I said a long time ago that he will take time to mature, but it was always evident (to me), that he had the talent to be a star.

Come on Dogs!, get the deal done.

He had a breakout season last year without question - he took some big strides forward in his ruck craft, which was a real obvious and very costly weakness against the better rucks in previous seasons.

Playing devil's advocate, did we win finals or even challenge the big dogs in 2023? We weren't even close. Now of course that's not English's fault, but team success is so much more than one player excelling in their position. A good comparison is Grundy leaving Collingwood and they previously brought in a workhorse like Darcy Cameron as cover - Cameron is a premiership player and Grundy is onto his 3rd club in 3 seasons. Now we don't have a proven Cameron ruck type on our list at the moment (unless Lobb can change his perspective on more ruck minutes), so it places us in a crap list management/salary cap situation regarding English right here and now.

I'd prefer we kept English but it needs to be in line with our salary cap and he also needs to take a haircut for the incredible (and honestly misplaced at the time) faith that the club has put into him as a no 1 ruckman for many years. This faith has cost us so badly in key finals (and a GF), and IMO English should repay this enormous faith by taking what would still be a very generous contract but at the lower end that he would otherwise command on the open market. He's a sub $1m a season for mine.

Perfect world is that we win the flag in 2024 and English raises his game even further and becomes a premiership hero. If he then chose to take a godfather offer from a West Coast, it would be with all our blessing and we would be compensated accordingly - but we would have needed to shore up an immediate plan B.

[Mantis]

He had a breakout season last year without question - he took some big strides forward in his ruck craft, which was a real obvious and very costly weakness against the better rucks in previous seasons.

Playing devil's advocate, did we win finals or even challenge the big dogs in 2023? We weren't even close. Now of course that's not English's fault, but team success is so much more than one player excelling in their position. A good comparison is Grundy leaving Collingwood and they previously brought in a workhorse like Darcy Cameron as cover - Cameron is a premiership player and Grundy is onto his 3rd club in 3 seasons. Now we don't have a proven Cameron ruck type on our list at the moment (unless Lobb can change his perspective on more ruck minutes), so it places us in a crap list management/salary cap situation regarding English right here and now.

I'd prefer we kept English but it needs to be in line with our salary cap and he also needs to take a haircut for the incredible (and honestly misplaced at the time) faith that the club has put into him as a no 1 ruckman for many years. This faith has cost us so badly in key finals (and a GF), and IMO English should repay this enormous faith by taking what would still be a very generous contract but at the lower end that he would otherwise command on the open market. He's a sub $1m a season for mine.

Perfect world is that we win the flag in 2024 and English raises his game even further and becomes a premiership hero. If he then chose to take a godfather offer from a West Coast, it would be with all our blessing and we would be compensated accordingly - but we would have needed to shore up an immediate plan B.

He might have had a breakout season, but still only finished 7th in our B & F.

We probably over-worked him in the 1st part of the year and paid the price for it with his drop off in form late, but if he wants to get paid like the best...well he needs to perform to that level over the entire season.

[Topdog]

I'd be gutted to lose Big Timmy, it was always going to take him longer to have consistent big games as he started off with such a small frame. He is entering the prime of his career now and I'm confident he will be worth $1m a season during this contract even though he probably isnt right now (in my opinion).

[Bullies]

I think the other advantage we have is that none of the other top MEL clubs will be making a play for English with the kind of money being thrown about. If they were to have those kind of funds available they would target a top of the range mid or key position player. By all accounts he loves Melbourne. Eagles will throw the sink at him and we won't be able to compete with the offer but not everyone wants to train in 40 degrees throughout the Summer. The other advantage we now have are our training facilities which are state of the art.

[hujsh]

I think the other advantage we have is that none of the other top MEL clubs will be making a play for English with the kind of money being thrown about. If they were to have those kind of funds available they would target a top of the range mid or key position player. By all accounts he loves Melbourne and was raised in country VIC. Eagles will throw the sink at him and we won't be able to compete with the offer but not everyone wants to train in 40 degrees throughout the Summer. The other advantage we now have are our training facilities which are state of the art.

His partner has also moved to Melbourne now and I'd imagine the prospect of splitting back up would not be an appealing one.

[Axe Man]

I think the other advantage we have is that none of the other top MEL clubs will be making a play for English with the kind of money being thrown about. If they were to have those kind of funds available they would target a top of the range mid or key position player. By all accounts he loves Melbourne and was raised in country VIC. Eagles will throw the sink at him and we won't be able to compete with the offer but not everyone wants to train in 40 degrees throughout the Summer. The other advantage we now have are our training facilities which are state of the art.

Do you mean country WA?

[Bullies]

Do you mean country WA?

He was brought up in Traralgon i think until he was 13.

[Axe Man]

He was brought up in Traralgon i think until he was 13.

I'm fairly certain that isn't true. Born and raised around Pingelly, south east of Perth. I'm sure MJP can confirm.

Perhaps you are thinking of Naughton who grew up in Frankston before the family moved to WA?

[Bullies]

I'm fairly certain that isn't true. Born and raised around Pingelly, south east of Perth. I'm sure MJP can confirm.

Perhaps you are thinking of Naughton who grew up in Frankston before the family moved to WA?

My bad it was Naughton

[ReLoad]

I'd prefer we kept English but it needs to be in line with our salary cap and he also needs to take a haircut for the incredible (and honestly misplaced at the time) faith that the club has put into him as a no 1 ruckman for many years. This faith has cost us so badly in key finals (and a GF), and IMO English should repay this enormous faith by taking what would still be a very generous contract but at the lower end that he would otherwise command on the open market. He's a sub $1m a season for mine.

I'm totally on board with what you're saying, however in today's day and age, there is no way a person will go - I know you've looked after me in the past, but i can now make X, why wouldn't they? Footballers in particular are a single head knock away from loosing their livelihood, but they have to make hay while the sun shines.

Personally i think hes worth 850-900k a year. especially with the large salary cap increases that are looming.

a 3-4 year deal on this kind of money with total free agency for him afterwards is a good result "to pay it back to us for what we've put into him" and reward for the "now"

West Coke are going to have to cough up big time to get him over there. If he hasn't signed by July hes gone.

[Bulldog Joe]

I'm totally on board with what you're saying, however in today's day and age, there is no way a person will go - I know you've looked after me in the past, but i can now make X, why wouldn't they? Footballers in particular are a single head knock away from loosing their livelihood, but they have to make hay while the sun shines.

Personally i think hes worth 850-900k a year. especially with the large salary cap increases that are looming.

a 3-4 year deal on this kind of money with total free agency for him afterwards is a good result "to pay it back to us for what we've put into him" and reward for the "now"

West Coke are going to have to cough up big time to get him over there. If he hasn't signed by July hes gone.

If i am Andrew MacDougall I am definitely looking at length of contract as much as quantum. The concussion issues make that an imperative.

[bornadog]

I'm totally on board with what you're saying, however in today's day and age, there is no way a person will go - I know you've looked after me in the past, but i can now make X, why wouldn't they? Footballers in particular are a single head knock away from loosing their livelihood, but they have to make hay while the sun shines.

Personally i think hes worth 850-900k a year. especially with the large salary cap increases that are looming.

a 3-4 year deal on this kind of money with total free agency for him afterwards is a good result "to pay it back to us for what we've put into him" and reward for the "now"

West Coke are going to have to cough up big time to get him over there. If he hasn't signed by July hes gone.

The other thing is who wants to play for WC. They are years away from playing any finals at all.

You have to enjoy your job and also get paid well. Losing every week, is not fun

[MrMahatma]

Seeing that Channel 7 clip, I reckon he’s gone.

[soupman]

I think he's worth it. The concussion issues worry me, but that's about it.

I just think he is hard to replace, and by losing him we don't come out enough ahead imo.

If he leaves what do we get? $1M salary, and a RFA compensation pick, or we force the trade and get not pick 1 because there is no way anybody actually trades that, so either one very good pick and change or a bunch of solid but not great picks.

So either a pick in the teens...yay.
Or one very good pick, say pick 5, which we could use on a young kid who could be anything, they could even one day be as good as English.
Or three picks in the teens, which is fine and all, but thats what GWS got for Jeremy Cameron and they ended up with Bruhn, Angwin and Stone. I expect if they were given the option retrospectively to take an extra $300K hit than what they wanted to spend to their salary cap to keep Cameron (I don't think he left for salary reasons anyway but it illustrates the point).

Sweet, so sure the trade compo isn't amazing, but what does that extra money mean for us? Surely the $1M is going to revolutionise our list?

Well probably not. From all reports we aren't spending it all anyway, so it isn't desperately needed "cap relief" even with JUH and Bailey coming ooc.

Ah yes so lets spend it on an area of need. Except how? First we have to find a ruck that doesn't make us that much worse. We have two on the list but Darcy is basically the English scenario 6 years removed...we know he is going to be a gun, but he won't get there for ages, and Lobb has barely justified his place in the side in his preferred position and has one half against Geelong doing all the heavy lifting for the "I think Lobb would be a decent option for a year" believers.

So we need to find another, convince them to come across by offering extra money, and then make a trade happen. We can jump on the ruck merry go round i guess, and hope we end up with the good one. I mean Hickey is the only good discard ruck to have changed hands in years, otherwise we get to play with our Braydon Preuss or cooked Stef Martin or Callum Coleman Jones. But at least that option is cheap and we keep the picks we get for English and maybe $500K. Otherwise we try and make the big offer to the emerging talent, like Draper and Marshall both attracted (something north of $600K for no gamers).

We could go for a gun ruck (I don't even know who tbh) but then you are effectively trading English for a different ruck without making much of a profit if at all.

So yeah I'd much rather keep English, even if it's for slightly more than we'd like, because the cost to replace him effectively nullifies most of the benefits of losing him.

And if it all goes to shit well Collingwood are a pretty good example for how you can lose your highly paid star ruckman who suddenly dropped off the cliff and not need it to be the reason you aren't good as a team anymore.

[FrediKanoute]

I'm totally on board with what you're saying, however in today's day and age, there is no way a person will go - I know you've looked after me in the past, but i can now make X, why wouldn't they? Footballers in particular are a single head knock away from loosing their livelihood, but they have to make hay while the sun shines.

Personally i think hes worth 850-900k a year. especially with the large salary cap increases that are looming.

a 3-4 year deal on this kind of money with total free agency for him afterwards is a good result "to pay it back to us for what we've put into him" and reward for the "now"

West Coke are going to have to cough up big time to get him over there. If he hasn't signed by July hes gone.

Because sometimes making X and never playing a flag or not playing finals is just not worth the money sacrifice. Eagles are 3 years from finals and whilst anything can happen, probably 5 years from flag contenders. English will be over 30 having shouldered the ruck in a developing team. Toll on his body; toll on his mental health would be enormous.

Personally I think her will stay. Will be a million plus deal, but he will stay.