Tim English - What Price do you pay?

[JanLorMill]

If he is worth 1million or more in 2025, he need to improve again in 2024. Based on 2023, his actual influence on game, the need for dominant ruck to win a premiership, and the Grundy/collingwood example he isn?t worth it atm.

[JanLorMill]

Paying Jamarra or Naughton big money is different, you can name a few games they have won for us already, I don’t see it with English.

[Grantysghost]

Pay the price.

Tim's one of us. We drafted him and he has grown with us...

I hate turning footy into transactions. Tim is a Bulldog - make it so.

Preach!

[my plums]

Surely both Tim and the Club can meet in the middle of the pay scale. His manger would want heaps and the club would want a lot less so somewhere in the middle seems fair for the time we’ve put into him and what he is starting to deliver for us.

[GVGjr]

Surely both Tim and the Club can meet in the middle of the pay scale. His manger would want heaps and the club would want a lot less so somewhere in the middle seems fair for the time we’ve put into him and what he is starting to deliver for us.

It probably won't be a drawn out negotiation in terms of discussions.
We should put forward our 'close to' best offer. McDougall will want more because West Coast will offer more and they'll settle on something in between.

[jDogs]

Pay the price.

Tim's one of us. We drafted him and he has grown with us...

I hate turning footy into transactions. Tim is a Bulldog - make it so.

On the other hand, does paying him what could be a huge market price then see another Bulldog walked out the door?
I also dislike how footy is turning transactional, I hate the influence that American sports is having, particularly how all the footy players idolise it. It's becoming much more about the individual.

[Before I Die]

If he is worth 1million or more in 2025, he need to improve again in 2024. Based on 2023, his actual influence on game, the need for dominant ruck to win a premiership, and the Grundy/collingwood example he isn?t worth it atm.

The Collingwood 2023 premiership team could also be used to argue you don't need a dominant CHF or FF either.

A lot of WOOFers were lamenting in 2021 that that Melbourne only won the Premiership because of their ruck dominance.

It is pretty much universally accepted that without Tom Boyd we don't win the 2016 Premiership.

WOOF members voted Tim as our third best player last year behind Bont and Libba. If he stays fit he is likely to be the dominant ruckman of the next 6 years.

We should absolutely offer him his market value. If West Coke make an offer that we can't match without blowing up our salary cap, then that's a different story. But if Tim wants to stay and we lose him because our offer is inadequate, it will be looked back upon as an atrocious decision.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

You asked a simple question and the simple answer is you pay the price of what is needed if you deem the player rightly.

[josie]

The Collingwood 2023 premiership team could also be used to argue you don't need a dominant CHF or FF either.

A lot of WOOFers were lamenting in 2021 that that Melbourne only won the Premiership because of their ruck dominance.

It is pretty much universally accepted that without Tom Boyd we don't win the 2016 Premiership.

WOOF members voted Tim as our third best player last year behind Bont and Libba. If he stays fit he is likely to be the dominant ruckman of the next 6 years.

We should absolutely offer him his market value. If West Coke make an offer that we can't match without blowing up our salary cap, then that's a different story. But if Tim wants to stay and we lose him because our offer is inadequate, it will be looked back upon as an atrocious decision.

Agree with your post with, for me, one proviso:
I hope Tim takes some account of the loyalty and time it took by our Club and particularly Bevo, for him to become AA. I think a lot of clubs would have given up on him when he was being mauled by Grundy 4 or so years ago. I know I was concerned he didn?t have the grunt it would take. Understand we have to pay a big chunk of money to keep him but I don?t want it to tie our hands too much. If Wet Toast or another team make a Buddy or TBoyd type offer I?m not sure I would want us to match it, especially if it?s for a long period (given Tim?s concussion history).

I really hope he stays and also hope he is more open to longer stints in forward or backline. He is very versatile and possibly unique in the AFL. If we win 🏆 this year it will provide some solace if he decides to leave for a humongous offer we choose not to match, and in return gain a really high draft pick (1 to 4) plus optimistically a little extra on top of that.

[jeemak]

Agree with your post with, for me, one proviso:
I hope Tim takes some account of the loyalty and time it took by our Club and particularly Bevo, for him to become AA. I think a lot of clubs would have given up on him when he was being mauled by Grundy 4 or so years ago. I know I was concerned he didn?t have the grunt it would take. Understand we have to pay a big chunk of money to keep him but I don?t want it to tie our hands too much. If Wet Toast or another team make a Buddy or TBoyd type offer I?m not sure I would want us to match it, especially if it?s for a long period (given Tim?s concussion history).

I really hope he stays and also hope he is more open to longer stints in forward or backline. He is very versatile and possibly unique in the AFL. If we win �� this year it will provide some solace if he decides to leave for a humongous offer we choose not to match, and in return gain a really high draft pick (1 to 4) plus optimistically a little extra on top of that.

Not sure other teams would have given up on him. If anything they'd have likely pumped as many resources into him as they could find to get his craft up to speed, given his potential. Possibly they wouldn't have exposed him in the same way we did, and that's not on Tim, that's on us. I reckon as supporters we struggle to delineate how he was exposed, how he performed, and what he now owes us.

The bolded bit is key for mine, and I've been critical of Tim's evidential want to be the main man in the ruck above all else (but from his perspective, he's the incumbent AA ruckman so he might say the stance was justified). Hopefully he's mature enough to now know he rucks best when he's fresh/ not too fatigued, and brings willingness to mix it up across the ground. We need all the help we can get in the air defensively, and you can never have enough scoring avenues.

[bornadog]

The Collingwood 2023 premiership team could also be used to argue you don't need a dominant CHF or FF either.

A lot of WOOFers were lamenting in 2021 that that Melbourne only won the Premiership because of their ruck dominance.

It is pretty much universally accepted that without Tom Boyd we don't win the 2016 Premiership.

WOOF members voted Tim as our third best player last year behind Bont and Libba. If he stays fit he is likely to be the dominant ruckman of the next 6 years.

We should absolutely offer him his market value. If West Coke make an offer that we can't match without blowing up our salary cap, then that's a different story. But if Tim wants to stay and we lose him because our offer is inadequate, it will be looked back upon as an atrocious decision.

Great post, how I feel as well.

[Go_Dogs]

I voted for $1.1m as I consider that to be at the top end of current salaries and a reasonable landing point.

No idea how a deal like that gets structured - maybe it’s something like $4.5m over four years (I’d prefer that type of duration, four to five years) with that salary inclusive of some incentives based on games played, AA etc. structured in payment terms over those 4 years however suits the overall list management strategy best.

I kinda agree. Pay what we need to, however if he gets a $1.5m offer for 7 years somewhere else it might be the type of deal that’s really hard for us to match. No idea how likely that is…

[GVGjr]

I voted for $1.1m as I consider that to be at the top end of current salaries and a reasonable landing point.

No idea how a deal like that gets structured - maybe it’s something like $4.5m over four years (I’d prefer that type of duration, four to five years) with that salary inclusive of some incentives based on games played, AA etc. structured in payment terms over those 4 years however suits the overall list management strategy best.

I kinda agree. Pay what we need to, however if he gets a $1.5m offer for 7 years somewhere else it might be the type of deal that’s really hard for us to match. No idea how likely that is…

The only real problems with the pay whatever it takes approach at the level of money being mentioned is if the player gets a debilitating injury or their form substantially drops off and it can happen. You are then left with finding a replacement and a hole if the salary cap for a period of time. There is a risk with any long term and high value deal but I wouldn't be critical of the club if it put in their best offer and we still lost Tim. As good as he is, we need to have a point where the money offered doesn't become a problem for us.

I'm confident the deal will get done, it's just going to take a while.

[hujsh]

Not sure other teams would have given up on him. If anything they'd have likely pumped as many resources into him as they could find to get his craft up to speed, given his potential. Possibly they wouldn't have exposed him in the same way we did, and that's not on Tim, that's on us. I reckon as supporters we struggle to delineate how he was exposed, how he performed, and what he now owes us.

The bolded bit is key for mine, and I've been critical of Tim's evidential want to be the main man in the ruck above all else (but from his perspective, he's the incumbent AA ruckman so he might say the stance was justified). Hopefully he's mature enough to now know he rucks best when he's fresh/ not too fatigued, and brings willingness to mix it up across the ground. We need all the help we can get in the air defensively, and you can never have enough scoring avenues.

Yeah I guess it is a bit of a two way street, we pumped time into Tim to get him ready but we probably overexposed him early more because we lost Roughead and Boyd and chose to let Campbell go. Ideally he'd have played more games as the 2nd ruck and maybe transitioned to 50/50 with someone more experienced until it was his time.

[kickit2Koly]

$1.1 is fair given he is a all Aus. As others have said, I am more worried about length of deal than money given his concussion issues.

I wish we did it like the NFL where you guarantee a portion of the money rather than the length of the deal. Somethings like $5.5mil over 5 years with $3.5mil guaranteed.