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  1. #151
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    Re: Tribunal / suspensions 2024

    Is the penalty worse if you direct a homophobic slur at someone who is known to be gay versus someone who isn't (may or may not be)?

    What if you direct a homophobic slur at a homophobe because you know it will make them uncomfortable?

    I'm sure the AFL has thoroughly thought all of this through and has a standardised approach to handling these situations as they arise.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

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  3. #152
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    Re: Tribunal / suspensions 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by Sedat View Post
    That would be quite the turn of events, seeing as Finlayson is indigenous
    Okay if he said it to JJ then. Or called Lin Jong a c***k. I'm sure you understand the point.

  4. #153
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    Re: Tribunal / suspensions 2024

    Finlayson always been an idiot, just deserves.

  5. #154
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    Re: Tribunal / suspensions 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    Racism is far worse in any name calling.

    I was comparing the severity of the penalty, ie a physical hit v name calling
    TBH it's not 'name calling'. It's a 'slur'. That's why I pulled the more commonly understood racism example (despite the 'umm actually' reply I think most people here understand the comparison in general terms). I know it was used more commonly in the past, hell there's even a South Park episode about how we should still be able to use it for Bikers I remember watching years ago, but nowdays, especially for people of Findlayson's age, you know if you're using it that you're using a slur. So he either chose to do so or uses it so often it just slipped out. Either way reflects poorly on him.

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post

    The AFL needs to be consistent, have set penalties and don't discriminate for all the different types of rules broken.

    I also think your pass record should be taken into consideration and no discounts for being a good citizen.
    Looking forward to someone getting banned for calling a player a red-neck or cracker lol

    TBH I have to admit it's probably preferable to leaving makey-uppey in the hands of the AFL but in this particular circumstance I think they got it right. Clarkson's wasn't really homophbic IMO. He used a pretty common expletive which is homophobic in the same way calling someone a pussy is misogynist. Finalyson used a term that is now only relegated to being used as a homophobic slur. I'm just not looking forward to the end results of a 'consistent' policy here.

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  7. #155
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    Re: Tribunal / suspensions 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    Is the penalty worse if you direct a homophobic slur at someone who is known to be gay versus someone who isn't (may or may not be)?

    What if you direct a homophobic slur at a homophobe because you know it will make them uncomfortable?

    I'm sure the AFL has thoroughly thought all of this through and has a standardised approach to handling these situations as they arise.
    I don't doubt for a second that Finlayson isn't actually a homophobe. Or rather, he's not a hate filled homophobe but more of a casual boofhead footy club "that's poofter stuff" type of homophobe.

    The thing that gets me is how readily that word came to mind to use as a sledge. It goes to show that while attitudes towards homosexual people have shifted (for the better) for the bulk of society, it's still a-ok to be a casual homophobe at the footy club, just don't let the poofos at head office hear about it.

    And since we're talking, back onto another hobby horse of mine, why is the AFL still happy to broadcast players spitting all over national TV? I detest spitting, it's vile. I've played heaps of sport and never once felt like i had to spit. WTF.
    "It's over. It's all over."

  8. #156
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    Re: Tribunal / suspensions 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    I think people are suggesting a homophobic slur from a coach (who has previously been accused of racist and sexist outbursts) resulting in a slap on the wrist sets a precedent of sorts, and that going straight to three weeks suspension for a player without any precedent for a homophobic slur, albeit a more severe one, is strange.
    Do you consider cocksucker to be a legit homophobic slur? Not intellectually but as part of day to day use in society? Like if you asked Clarkson if it's a homophobic term do you think he'd actually realise that or would it take him a minute to think about it first before he realised (if he even realised at all). Because to me it's very different from what Finlayson said. To me one has has always been interchangeable with 'asshole' or 'dick' and the other is definitely not. Maybe that should change but before people were complaining about Clarkson I would have thought it was more misoginistic a term than homophobic tbh.

    I severely doubt the vast majority of Australians considered Clarkson's words to be homophobic. You could make a sound logical case as to why the term is homophobic but it doesn't really have the same stink on it does it? Maybe people will start to make the case now and over time that'll be something we phase out like we did the F-word but I don't know that we're there yet.

  9. #157
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    Re: Tribunal / suspensions 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    Do you consider cocksucker to be a legit homophobic slur? Not intellectually but as part of day to day use in society? Like if you asked Clarkson if it's a homophobic term do you think he'd actually realise that or would it take him a minute to think about it first before he realised (if he even realised at all). Because to me it's very different from what Finlayson said. To me one has has always been interchangeable with 'asshole' or 'dick' and the other is definitely not. Maybe that should change but before people were complaining about Clarkson I would have thought it was more misoginistic a term than homophobic tbh.

    I severely doubt the vast majority of Australians considered Clarkson's words to be homophobic. You could make a sound logical case as to why the term is homophobic but it doesn't really have the same stink on it does it? Maybe people will start to make the case now and over time that'll be something we phase out like we did the F-word but I don't know that we're there yet.
    I can see how people would be offended by CS as a homophobic slur in the same way I can see women being offended by the BIG C. They're used as derogatory terms born from outdated stereotypes by some and felt that way by others. Honestly, I've used both over time and respectively haven't thought about the act and who does it, or that part of the female anatomy (I blame Hollywood and I'm trying to be better).

    But in the case of Clarkson, should his punishment be so much less than Finlayson's because the bulk of Australia hasn't caught up with how offensive it can be to sections of the community? Who decides how severe penalties should be and what formula is used to determine that severity?

    To me one week would have sufficed, knowing the differences between the two. I look at it like this, what Finlayson said was probably twice as bad as what Clarkson said. So that goes from a fine to a week. The AFEL could have stated from that point on a zero tolerance policy and a prescribed two week suspension and an escalation from there for no remorse or repetition of the slur.

    Now the AFEL has nowhere to go, and we're in a situation where homophobic slurs that might be directed at people who aren't even homosexuals can attract more time on the sidelines than carelessly (but really intentionally) concussing someone.

    It's something they should have had figured out after the Clarkson incident and gotten onto the front foot with (in terms of detailed penalties), but of course everyone at AFL house was circle jerking themselves (inclusively no doubt) over how amazing Gather Round was going to be after the huge success of Round Zero.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

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  11. #158
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    Re: Tribunal / suspensions 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by Sedat View Post
    It's kinda obvious, but let others twist themselves in knots trying to justify the inconsistency and complete lack of leadership by the AFEL. They were gift-wrapped the perfect opportunity to put a line in the sand on this issue (if they really cared about it) a month ago following Clarko's outburst and they chose to sweep it under the carpet, just as they did with the GWS player 2 years in a row boycotting Pride Round.

    Either you are all in on this issue, or you only pay lip service to it when the outrage mob demand blood.

    I don't think anybody is justifying what Finlayson said, least of all himself. You can't unscramble that egg - he said it, immediately regretted it, owned it, apologised unreservedly for it, understood the ramifications of what he said in a contrite and remorseful manner, and happily put himself at the mercy of the AFEL to determine a penalty.
    Perfectly summed up.
    Had Finlayson not owned it and been so genuinely apologetic the AFL might have given him something closer to 5 or 6 weeks which to me is over the top.
    In the heat of the battle things can be said and I'd be okay with a first offence of 1 week and a 5 week suspension for a second offence type scenario.
    He's paid a very high price and lets hope the players right across the competition realise that enough is enough and there are some severe ramifications for this sort of conduct going forward.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  12. #159
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    Re: Tribunal / suspensions 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    Do you consider cocksucker to be a legit homophobic slur? Not intellectually but as part of day to day use in society? Like if you asked Clarkson if it's a homophobic term do you think he'd actually realise that or would it take him a minute to think about it first before he realised (if he even realised at all). Because to me it's very different from what Finlayson said. To me one has has always been interchangeable with 'asshole' or 'dick' and the other is definitely not. Maybe that should change but before people were complaining about Clarkson I would have thought it was more misoginistic a term than homophobic tbh.

    I severely doubt the vast majority of Australians considered Clarkson's words to be homophobic. You could make a sound logical case as to why the term is homophobic but it doesn't really have the same stink on it does it? Maybe people will start to make the case now and over time that'll be something we phase out like we did the F-word but I don't know that we're there yet.
    I agree with this. The Finlayson term is far worse.

  13. #160
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    Re: Tribunal / suspensions 2024

    From Robbo's article on the Finlayson suspension:

    So, to the well-known AFLW player who called her opponent a “f----t’’ last season – which was heard by several players at the time and relayed to club officials after the game – she is lucky that an official report was not made to the AFL. Because next time, if she was to be so stupid, it won’t be kept under wraps.

  14. #161
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    Re: Tribunal / suspensions 2024

    So club officials and Robbo know of incident last year in a league where a large percentage of the players identify as gay and it doesn't get reported to the AFL?

    Serioulsy. The AFL is all over the place.

    Source: https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...9eb93ac694?amp

  15. #162
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    Re: Tribunal / suspensions 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by angelopetraglia View Post
    I agree with this. The Finlayson term is far worse.
    Is it twice as bad or four times as bad? At the moment the AFEL has it sitting at four times as bad (sometimes).

    All the while Danny Zorko made an opponent cry and didn't get a sanction. You can say something so horrendous and clearly targeted that you make someone cry and get away with it in the AFEL, or you can say something homophobic and get a fine or nothing at all, or get three weeks.

    Nuts. The incompetent twits should have had this sorted.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  16. #163
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    Re: Tribunal / suspensions 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    Is it twice as bad or four times as bad? At the moment the AFEL has it sitting at four times as bad (sometimes).

    All the while Danny Zorko made an opponent cry and didn't get a sanction. You can say something so horrendous and clearly targeted that you make someone cry and get away with it in the AFEL, or you can say something homophobic and get a fine or nothing at all, or get three weeks.

    Nuts. The incompetent twits should have had this sorted.
    It is far worse in one context. I think the intent of the word is what makes the difference. You can use the Clarko word in a contex where it ain't homophobic. It is a word that is used in everyday language where the abolute inent is not to demean someone because they are gay. There is no grey area in the Finlayson word. It is used to demean and has historical signficance to the community in being used to demean, humilate and shame someone for who they are.

    However, that context is if the word is used against someone who is actually gay. If you are not gay, I don't think it carries the same strength. It does fall more into the insult category. If you are not gay, I actually think what Clarko said and Finlayson said are not miles apart.

    But the inconsistency is absolutely wild. Especially when you consider the same thing happened in the AFLW last season for zero penalty.

  17. #164
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    Re: Tribunal / suspensions 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    Is it twice as bad or four times as bad? At the moment the AFEL has it sitting at four times as bad (sometimes).

    All the while Danny Zorko made an opponent cry and didn't get a sanction. You can say something so horrendous and clearly targeted that you make someone cry and get away with it in the AFEL, or you can say something homophobic and get a fine or nothing at all, or get three weeks.

    Nuts. The incompetent twits should have had this sorted.
    We need a matrix Jee.

    He used the word po*f, medium volume, high aggression.
    2 weeks.

  18. #165
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    Re: Tribunal / suspensions 2024

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    Racism is far worse in any name calling.

    I was comparing the severity of the penalty, ie a physical hit v name calling

    The AFL needs to be consistent, have set penalties and don't discriminate for all the different types of rules broken.

    I also think your pass record should be taken into consideration and no discounts for being a good citizen.
    How can you actually say that unless you're in someone elses position who may constantly be on the receiving end of homophobic slurs? they're both disgusting and inexcusable and what i do know is i have and have had work mates, friends who have copped this hideous abuse for most of their lives, to the point of being in such a dark place that "living" is or was not their priority going forward.

    A physical hit, have had many playing sport, i'm fine.

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