Racism - Vilification Class Action Against AFL/ VFL

[hujsh]

I think in the same way we sometimes lionize figures of the past beyond their reality, we also sometimes ascribe worse beliefs or morals to the general public of the past and then use that fictitious morality to excuse condemnable behaviour.

Was everyone in the 70s actually super cool with racism? Or was it just somewhat common and people did on some level know better/had every opportunity to know better? It's not like it's amazingly complicated and if you're calling an Aboriginal footballer a slur (or maybe worse IDK the spcifics) because you think it'll help win a silly game, you understand it's something serious enough that it can upset them and distract them from the game.

I don't have any facts here but it smells of apologia similar to what people like Christopher Columbus get from certain types.

[angelopetraglia]

Carlton chief executive Brian Cook says the AFL needs to be concerned about the class action brought against the league by ex-North Melbourne player Phil Krakouer for its alleged failure to protect players from racial abuse on the field. https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/...11-p5fbdt.html

[Grantysghost]

I think in the same way we sometimes lionize figures of the past beyond their reality, we also sometimes ascribe worse beliefs or morals to the general public of the past and then use that fictitious morality to excuse condemnable behaviour.

Was everyone in the 70s actually super cool with racism? Or was it just somewhat common and people did on some level know better/had every opportunity to know better? It's not like it's amazingly complicated and if you're calling an Aboriginal footballer a slur (or maybe worse IDK the spcifics) because you think it'll help win a silly game, you understand it's something serious enough that it can upset them and distract them from the game.

I don't have any facts here but it smells of apologia similar to what people like Christopher Columbus get from certain types.

Are there any figures from history you like or was everyone just bad until like 10 years ago?

[jeemak]

I just can't take anyone seriously that uses the term "cancelled" unironically. It devalues anything said around it.

The war on "cancel culture" became the holy cause of the right, all the while the screamed like babies and are the most easily triggered snowflakes in the universe.

You wanna have a serious conversation I'm down for it. You wanna trot out Trumpist catch cries I'm out.

Isn't snowflake another one of those words.......?

[Grantysghost]

Can we cancel EW and all the whinging lefties

I hate all the left and right bs it just pigeon holes and stifles discussion with preconception.

You said cancel you love Trump!

You like history's great explorers you agree with the execution of natives and genocide!

You've named your children Adolf, have a Hitler mo and fly the swastika outside your house! Nazi!

[EasternWest]

Isn't snowflake another one of those words.......?

I never said anyone should ever take me seriously either.

[hujsh]

Are there any figures from history you like or was everyone just bad until like 10 years ago?

You like Columbus?

John Brown was cool

[hujsh]

Can we cancel EW and all the whinging lefties

I hate all the left and right bs it just pigeon holes and stifles discussion with preconception.

You said cancel you love Trump!

You like history's great explorers you agree with the execution of natives and genocide!

You've named your children Adolf, have a Hitler mo and fly the swastika outside your house! Nazi!

I actually did type something about how everyone both cries about and engages in cancel cultures but didn't post it.

That said don't fool yourself into thinking being centrist is any better than being 'left or right'. It's still a position and an ideology.

You like history's great explorers you agree with the execution of natives and genocide!

That's... a bold extrapolation. I guess you can like Columbus if you want. Maybe you're a sailing buff. Worth knowing that even his contemporaries found him to be cruel and brutal if you want to profess your admiration though.

[Grantysghost]

You like Columbus?

John Brown was cool

I think im just interested in things from an academic point of view rather than trying to understand the justified emotion and inhumanity of the day... He actually thought he'd found a shortcut to India haha. Hence : Indians.

There's a part of me that admires the cahoney's on these guys to sail into the unknown and find their fortune for the pope, I don't even think he was a seafaring type.
Clearly though the affect on the natives was devastating including the old world diseases: horrid.

No one with any humanity thinks the treatment was anything but abhorrent, im just not sure if such a clash of cultures could have ever been peaceful.
I think it's ok to say Cook for eg was a pretty amazing explorer and enabler of important scientific expeditions (transit of venus) on one hand and be horrified with the outcomes for the native people and totally support and understand that pain.

Wow John Brown was cool, thanks for that.

[hujsh]

I think im just interested in things from an academic point of view rather than trying to understand the justified emotion and inhumanity of the day... He actually thought he'd found a shortcut to India haha. Hence : Indians.

There's a part of me that admires the cahoney's on these guys to sail into the unknown and find their fortune for the pope, I don't even think he was a seafaring type.
Clearly though the affect on the natives was devastating including the old world diseases: horrid.

No one with any humanity thinks the treatment was anything but abhorrent, im just not sure if such a clash of cultures could have ever been peaceful.
I think it's ok to say Cook for eg was a pretty amazing explorer and enabler of important scientific expeditions (transit of venus) on one hand and be horrified with the outcomes for the native people and totally support and understand that pain.

Wow John Brown was cool, thanks for that.

Oh he was sailing from a young age. Shipwrecked at 14. I might be mistaken but I believe he was a talented sailor (an intuitive understanding of certain things) but had a lot of other things he was decidedly poor at.

He was meant to be living peacefully and introducing Christianity to the native people but IIRC (again) went out of his way to not do that. I think he's a great example (along with Robert E. Lee) of someone that was not just a bad person by the modern view, but based on accounts of the time as well.

We tend to romanticize figures who were prominent in history, we want to believe the best of people but sometimes I think that leads to excusing the things they did wrong and diminishing our own view of human morality. I think we're capable of more than we give ourselves credit for, but the conditions we find ourselves in now leads us to false conclusions about the nature of people.

I think it's fine BTW to look back on people who were not 'good people' and still admire qualities or achievements of theirs. Hell Western morality was hugely influenced by people we'd consider pedophiles now. I can still enjoy the writings of Aristotle and reuse analogies like the shadows in the cave.

[angelopetraglia]

Columbus did things that the people of his time thought were abhorrent. The Spanish rulers of the time were shocked at some of his conduct. But even if he was saintly for his time, his role in colonisation will always mean that he will be judged harshly. However, someone was going to eventually discover the new world and regardless of who it was, it was most probably going to end in a smilar way. (The recent backlash against Columbus is also due to the attempt to eulogise him for the benefit of non Anglo Saxon Americans searching for their own founding father in the 20th century.)

Cook for all intennt and purposes was a man who had empathy and high morals for his time. He was a very different figure to Columbus. However, he is cast with a very similar brush. As we have seen in recent times with the well documented destuction of his statue.

History is complicated and nuanced. Revisionist history narratives have always been used and manipulated for poliitcal advantage. Just look at our most recent revisionist history example with Putin and his long dialogue going back to the 9th century why Ukraine is part of Russia.

[Grantysghost]

Oh he was sailing from a young age. Shipwrecked at 14. I might be mistaken but I believe he was a talented sailor (an intuitive understanding of certain things) but had a lot of other things he was decidedly poor at.

He was meant to be living peacefully and introducing Christianity to the native people but IIRC (again) went out of his way to not do that. I think he's a great example (along with Robert E. Lee) of someone that was not just a bad person by the modern view, but based on accounts of the time as well.

We tend to romanticize figures who were prominent in history, we want to believe the best of people but sometimes I think that leads to excusing the things they did wrong and diminishing our own view of human morality. I think we're capable of more than we give ourselves credit for, but the conditions we find ourselves in now leads us to false conclusions about the nature of people.

I think it's fine BTW to look back on people who were not 'good people' and still admire qualities or achievements of theirs. Hell Western morality was hugely influenced by people we'd consider pedophiles now. I can still enjoy the writings of Aristotle and reuse analogies like the shadows in the cave.

Spot on Hujsh.

Re Columbus i'd have to listen to the series again there was some reason i thought he was more an entrepreneur type than a classical seafarer.

[Rocket Science]

What would be really ace - among other forms of redress - is if the class action complainants leveraged their case to encourage the AFEL to take more fulsome ownership of the issue in the present day in more serious and sincere ways rather than the performative self service and evasion they're so very good at.

[EasternWest]

What would be really ace - among other forms of redress - is if the class action complainants leveraged their case to encourage the AFEL to take more fulsome ownership of the issue in the present day in more serious and sincere ways rather than the performative self service and evasion they're so very good at.

[Grantysghost]

Ray's legacy is that gif