Thanks Thanks:  1
Likes Likes:  18
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    10,829
    Post Thanks / Like

    What do you do with a problem like Caleb?

    Caleb Daniel. We love him. We picked him up despite the concerns over his height and he really shone with his agility, composure and ball use. Unfortunately it has not been clear sailing since his arrival as a top 5 B&F regular. Teams found ways to shut him out of the game (prime example being the 2020 final where he was not only tagged out of the game but his opponent got several goals) and have figured out how to limit the damage he can do with his distribution (don't over commit to the tackle, work him into a small space and cut off the angles he works so well to keep us moving forward).

    My impression is that, despite concerns over his height, the limitations he's dealing with now are more around his lack of pace and maybe a slight lack of depth in his kicks.

    1. Lack of pace

    While agile and with decent acceleration, Caleb is not fast. Usually shorter guys like him you'd expect to either be very quick or a contested beast. Caleb is neither really. So unlike Richards or JJ, when Caleb gets the ball he doesn't really have the option to burst forward. This makes it a lot easier for opposition players to corral him as unlike Richards if he jukes you you'll have plenty of time to catch up and shut him down. So with his options limited to sideways and backwards Caleb typically will work in the phonebox until he gets the chance to hit a 15-35 meter kick on a weird angle that you wouldn't expect. This leads into problem 2.

    2. Limited depth on his kicks

    Partly due to not having foward momentum, I think it's rare you see Caleb hit a long pass. Even if he has the distance it's usually too high and slow to really be effective. So that means once you corrale Caleb you can focus much more on cutting down the options within 35 meters or so. Lately it feels like he usually is stuck going backwards because of this and his attempts to dice up the zone aren't really effective like they used to be.

    So to me those are his issues right now. Firstly, do you think I've diagnosed them correctly? Secondly, where would you play Caleb and how would you use him.

    Historically his best role has been behind the ball but to me it feels like teams have caught up to his tricks and players with burst speed and long kicking like Richards, Bramble, JJ and Dale (I guess) are more effective in that role.

    Lots of people want him as a half forward, linking the midfield to the forwards, getting goals assist/score invovlements. That uses his skills but does the pace of the game when playing forward suit him or will it drive him to going slow and backwards when faced with the pressure of oncoming defenders?

    He's played some good games in the middle, can he model himself on Sam Mitchell? Right now it doesn't seem like Bevo trusts him in there. Does his smaller stature and slowish speed make him too vulnerable to opposition mids bursting past him, making and already bad weakness of our mids even more exposed?

    My suggestion right now... give him the Gia treatment. Gia, late in his career, was called the super sub. He had slowed down but when the pace was out of the game he'd come in with his smarts and crafty ways to get 2-3 goals. I feel this year that has been when we've seen Caleb at his best. Coming in once the pace of the game has dropped off and having more time/space to make use of his kicking skills.


    Have I lost my mind? What're your thoughts?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    5,129
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What do you do with a problem like Caleb?

    I think we do need to find a position for Caleb that lets him operate in space.

    Problem is that current AFL doesn't seem to be allowing space much at all.
    Life is to be Enjoyed not Endured

  3. Likes Testekill, jDogs liked this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Western Suburbs
    Posts
    6,053
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What do you do with a problem like Caleb?

    Was he playing half back in 2020 when he was an All Australian player and BnF winner? That's where I like him.

    I get that there are limited spots in the back half, but Bailey Dale has been stagnant for a while and Caleb has similar capacity to hurt by foot. With JJ, Richards and Bramble, you get good pace off the half-back line, I think Caleb offers something different in the way he can change angles with his kicking.

    I'd play him in that half back role and make Dale to do some work to win that spot back.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    West of somewhere.
    Posts
    6,336
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What do you do with a problem like Caleb?

    Quote Originally Posted by lemmon View Post

    I'd play him in that half back role and make Dale to do some work to win that spot back.
    I mean, yeah, but he's been crafting with the mids all summer.

    That might not mean much to us but I guarantee you it means a lot to the line coaches.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Western Suburbs
    Posts
    6,053
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What do you do with a problem like Caleb?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    I mean, yeah, but he's been crafting with the mids all summer.

    That might not mean much to us but I guarantee you it means a lot to the line coaches.
    Bevo's attitude doesn't seem to really reflect that. Last week he said: "When we think about Caleb and what role he might play week to week, he’s been pretty adept in playing all over the ground. He’s one of those players who doesn’t settle in one area".

    It seems like Bevo's attitude is that Caleb's got a skill-set that can be used to plug and play across the ground pending what the opposition and game state looks like. I reckon that's been to Caleb's detriment and his role has become more unstable while those around him have firmed up.

    Midfield is fine, but we seem to want more pace from the guys who are playing on the outside, so we need to squeeze him into the inside midfield rotation or he's at Footscray. For mine, he's too good not to play and the coaches don't want to squeeze him in with Bont/Libba/Treloar/Sanders on the inside.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    10,829
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What do you do with a problem like Caleb?

    Well he's out of the team this week. Where do you play him and what do you want to see before you elevate him?

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wherever the dogs are playing
    Posts
    61,779
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What do you do with a problem like Caleb?

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    Well he's out of the team this week. Where do you play him and what do you want to see before you elevate him?
    He is selected in the backline where he belongs
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2023
    Posts
    54
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What do you do with a problem like Caleb?

    Beveridge said today in the presser that Daniel hasn't settled in an area on the ground based on the needs of the team, but ultimately to the detriment of himself. So now they've decided they don't need him to plug holes so they've sent him back to the two's. I just reckon they've shafted him quite a bit. If I was Daniel, I would be adamant on playing half back and nowhere else, and getting back in that way.

  10. Likes bornadog, lemmon, macca liked this post
  11. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    2,955
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What do you do with a problem like Caleb?

    I'd like to see Caleb as a small forward. He does his best work in a phone box but doesn't have the big body to knockabout with the inside mids all day. With great hands below his knees I'm pretty sure he could crumb a goal a game.

    Trouble with the half back position is that we're playing Bramble, JJ, Dale, Williams and Richards along with Duryea as the intercepting small. That's just too many options already for mine. Through the midfield we're going with a youth policy - Sanders and Gallagher only have to perform at 70% of Caleb or Jacko's potential output to get the nod, so he's not much hope there either.

    Set him up with a position that might see him get a game. He's too good to be playing VFL.
    'And the Western suburbs erupt!'

  12. Likes jeemak, chef, hujsh liked this post
  13. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    10,829
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What do you do with a problem like Caleb?

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    He is selected in the backline where he belongs
    You see him there in the senior side? Who do you have in line to be replaced once he shows the right form?

  14. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    10,476
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What do you do with a problem like Caleb?

    It's half back and nothing else now.

    We already have a logjam for mids. We want to get games into Sanders and Gallagher and I suspect Garcia won't be far away. He's not suited to a forward role because he doesn't have the wheels to close down space.

    That leaves half back. I'd like Williams there but we seem to really want him on a wing. Dale has been struggling and Bramble is unproven, despite some good form in the first 3 weeks. There's a spot for Daniel if he finds form, he defends well despite his size, and if the combo of JJ/Richards/Bramble or Dale are our prime movers by foot, he can play a role.

    I'd like Dale to move up the ground, which would create an opening for Daniel.
    W00F!

  15. Likes hujsh liked this post
  16. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,082
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What do you do with a problem like Caleb?

    One of Daniel's best traits is his precision kicking. If it has dropped off , his going to find it hard to find a place in the team. Bramble has taken his spot . Great points of dicussion by @hujsh
    I would like to see him on the outside of packs, ready to receive and kick out forward.

    I hate to say this, but the pace of the games seem faster this year than last year? If this is the case, Daniel's lack of speed is being found out atm.

    We urgently need burst speed in our team.

  17. Likes GVGjr liked this post
  18. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sunshine
    Posts
    6,305
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What do you do with a problem like Caleb?

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    Caleb Daniel. We love him. We picked him up despite the concerns over his height and he really shone with his agility, composure and ball use. Unfortunately it has not been clear sailing since his arrival as a top 5 B&F regular. Teams found ways to shut him out of the game (prime example being the 2020 final where he was not only tagged out of the game but his opponent got several goals) and have figured out how to limit the damage he can do with his distribution (don't over commit to the tackle, work him into a small space and cut off the angles he works so well to keep us moving forward).

    My impression is that, despite concerns over his height, the limitations he's dealing with now are more around his lack of pace and maybe a slight lack of depth in his kicks.

    1. Lack of pace

    While agile and with decent acceleration, Caleb is not fast. Usually shorter guys like him you'd expect to either be very quick or a contested beast. Caleb is neither really. So unlike Richards or JJ, when Caleb gets the ball he doesn't really have the option to burst forward. This makes it a lot easier for opposition players to corral him as unlike Richards if he jukes you you'll have plenty of time to catch up and shut him down. So with his options limited to sideways and backwards Caleb typically will work in the phonebox until he gets the chance to hit a 15-35 meter kick on a weird angle that you wouldn't expect. This leads into problem 2.

    2. Limited depth on his kicks

    Partly due to not having foward momentum, I think it's rare you see Caleb hit a long pass. Even if he has the distance it's usually too high and slow to really be effective. So that means once you corrale Caleb you can focus much more on cutting down the options within 35 meters or so. Lately it feels like he usually is stuck going backwards because of this and his attempts to dice up the zone aren't really effective like they used to be.

    So to me those are his issues right now. Firstly, do you think I've diagnosed them correctly? Secondly, where would you play Caleb and how would you use him.

    Historically his best role has been behind the ball but to me it feels like teams have caught up to his tricks and players with burst speed and long kicking like Richards, Bramble, JJ and Dale (I guess) are more effective in that role.

    Lots of people want him as a half forward, linking the midfield to the forwards, getting goals assist/score invovlements. That uses his skills but does the pace of the game when playing forward suit him or will it drive him to going slow and backwards when faced with the pressure of oncoming defenders?

    He's played some good games in the middle, can he model himself on Sam Mitchell? Right now it doesn't seem like Bevo trusts him in there. Does his smaller stature and slowish speed make him too vulnerable to opposition mids bursting past him, making and already bad weakness of our mids even more exposed?

    My suggestion right now... give him the Gia treatment. Gia, late in his career, was called the super sub. He had slowed down but when the pace was out of the game he'd come in with his smarts and crafty ways to get 2-3 goals. I feel this year that has been when we've seen Caleb at his best. Coming in once the pace of the game has dropped off and having more time/space to make use of his kicking skills.


    Have I lost my mind? What're your thoughts?
    I agree that we have a problem with Caleb, how he is being used and his prospects. But I can't really agree with the OP nailing the reasons for this.

    Caleb's issues are that we have many small/mid defenders - and that he can't win contested ball - meaning that it is difficult to play him in the midfield or as a half forward.

    The depth of his kicking isn't holding him back. He's an unbelievable kick - the 5-10m difference with some others is not a deal breaker. Nor is any issue with pace. He covers ground, he doesn't get caught. He isn't explosive but plenty aren't.

    Problem is you can't put him inside mid - so you have to make decisions about give or take and team balance elsewhere.

  19. Thanks Go_Dogs thanked for this post
    Likes hujsh liked this post
  20. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2023
    Posts
    54
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What do you do with a problem like Caleb?

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    You see him there in the senior side? Who do you have in line to be replaced once he shows the right form?
    If that's his spot and he plays off half back at VFL, then my answer is to that is: any player who is occupying that position in the AFL that Daniel deserves to play in front of based on form. If this selection committee is committed to better selection integrity (picking players based on their positions and not filling roles with McComb type mids, and picking players on form), then this is what will happen.

    I guess if Dale is the sub this week, there's a good chance (and rightfully so) that he is next in line for the chop, and Daniel might come in for him.

  21. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    10,829
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What do you do with a problem like Caleb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozza View Post
    I agree that we have a problem with Caleb, how he is being used and his prospects. But I can't really agree with the OP nailing the reasons for this.

    Caleb's issues are that we have many small/mid defenders - and that he can't win contested ball - meaning that it is difficult to play him in the midfield or as a half forward.

    The depth of his kicking isn't holding him back. He's an unbelievable kick - the 5-10m difference with some others is not a deal breaker. Nor is any issue with pace. He covers ground, he doesn't get caught. He isn't explosive but plenty aren't.

    Problem is you can't put him inside mid - so you have to make decisions about give or take and team balance elsewhere.
    See I'm not totally convinced he can't win the contested ball. Even way back in 2016 as a slight young pup he had something like 10 contested possessions against West Coast in that EF. He's generally pretty strong in the contest when the ball is there to be won.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •