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  1. #16
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    Re: What's in a name? Plenty

    Who cares???

    I couldn't care less what we were called as long as we remained the AFL presence in the Western Region of Melbourne.

    Footscray/Western Bulldogs, it's all the same to me.

  2. #17
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    Re: What's in a name? Plenty

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket Science View Post
    Any other compelling reasons besides 'get over it' as to why those who have various issues with the identity change foisted upon them should forfeit the right to harbour those thoughts?

    Don't start with the 'it's ancient history' routine either, as if the extent of a wrong diminishes as time passes since the deed.

    It doesn't state the total number of those who've voted yet, but according to that particular poll 69% want the name changed back to Footscray, as opposed to 31% in favour of the current name...Nuthin' in that I suppose?


    Nothing at all it's not an official plebiscite, it's just a newspaper poll.


    Before I got too excited about the result I'd be asking a few questions: What is the actual wording of the poll question? Who gets to vote? Can you vote more than once?



    Fact of the matter is evrything is going well onfield and the club is united with staff, coaches, players, admin and supporters all singing from the same song sheet. Why you'd want to endanger all that and risk a dispute just to revisit a decision made 11 years ago is beyond me. Why not just go back to being Prince Imperials and really be done with it?
    Have you been reading those Roddy Doyle books again, Dougal!?


    I have, yeah Ted, you big gobshite

  3. #18
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    Re: What's in a name? Plenty

    This is the sort of poll that those opposed will feel strongly about it and will all vote.

    Those in favour won't care so much and would be less likely to vote.

    Personally, I don't care much either way, probably leaning slightly towards keeping it as is. I haven't been bothered about it enough to vote.

    I understand why it was done and I actually think it has made a difference, maybe not as significantly as they hoped it would.

    There are an awful lot of Bulldog jumpers at Auskick clinics all over the Western Suburbs these days and that has to be a good thing.

  4. #19
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    Re: What's in a name? Plenty

    I only mentioned the poll after it was raised by another poster and am not using it as major underpinning of my feelings on the topic, as expressed earlier in the thread. My view is my view whether I'm part of a majority or otherwise, just thought the result worth mentioning in passing...and it's now gone up to 70% so there.

    The wording couldn't be more straight forward I might add: "Should the Western Bulldogs revert to being called Footscray?" Hard to see how that phrasing might unjustifiably skew the results. There's also a "/voted.html" ending added to the URL once you vote and view the results, so I gather votes are kept to singles only.

    Anyway, I find the mention of 'official plebiscites' interesting...given there wasn't one required when the name was changed.

    One suspects if a poll of members was taken at the time of the identity change, those still harbouring regrets these days might be more inclined to 'get over it', even if those in that camp were fairly and squarely defeated.

    I also don't think we're so fragile as a club that we should be frightened of revisiting this discussion. Our clubwide identity is a valuable asset and rightfully stirs people with an interest in such matters.
    BORDERLINE FLYING

  5. #20
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    Re: What's in a name? Plenty

    Given Dane Swan won player of the round 2 weeks in a row i doubt that every voter was a bulldog supporter.

  6. #21
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    Re: What's in a name? Plenty

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket Science View Post
    I only mentioned the poll after it was raised by another poster and am not using it as major underpinning of my feelings on the topic, as expressed earlier in the thread. My view is my view whether I'm part of a majority or otherwise, just thought the result worth mentioning in passing...and it's now gone up to 70% so there.

    Fair point. I've always held the belief that an opinion cant be wrong. Understand your point about majority and minority opinions as well-people who know me well will tell you I dont often back down from mine no matter how many others howl me down.



    The wording couldn't be more straight forward I might add: "Should the Western Bulldogs revert to being called Footscray?" Hard to see how that phrasing might unjustifiably skew the results. There's also a "/voted.html" ending added to the URL once you vote and view the results, so I gather votes are kept to singles only.
    It's a fair question. But I'd like to have a look at the entire page set up to judge exactly how impartial The Age are being but Realfooty wont load for some reason.


    Anyway, I find the mention of 'official plebiscites' interesting...given there wasn't one required when the name was changed.
    Not one specifically but I remember getting a members questionare in '96 asking what our preference between a merger, relocation or a name change were.

    One suspects if a poll of members was taken at the time of the identity change, those still harbouring regrets these days might be more inclined to 'get over it', even if those in that camp were fairly and squarely defeated.
    It's done and dusted. The only thing to the club would gain by revisiting the issue is destabilisation (if that's a real word!) Look I'd love to be still following a club called Footscray playing out of Western Oval in the AFL but those days are gone. Doesnt stop me yelling "'Arnascray" when the boys run out though-that'll never die.

    I also don't think we're so fragile as a club that we should be frightened of revisiting this discussion. Our clubwide identity is a valuable asset and rightfully stirs people with an interest in such matters

    I'd argue that it's not fragillity that matters. We wont get any success as a club if we're pulling in different directions and getting sidetracked by issues that dont directly impact what happens onfield.
    Have you been reading those Roddy Doyle books again, Dougal!?


    I have, yeah Ted, you big gobshite

  7. #22
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    Re: What's in a name? Plenty

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket Science View Post
    Any other compelling reasons besides 'get over it' as to why those who have various issues with the identity change foisted upon them should forfeit the right to harbour those thoughts?

    Don't start with the 'it's ancient history' routine either, as if the extent of a wrong diminishes as time passes since the deed.

    It doesn't state the total number of those who've voted yet, but according to that particular poll 69% want the name changed back to Footscray, as opposed to 31% in favour of the current name...Nuthin' in that I suppose?
    I originally was one that embraced the change but now I would fully support the change back to Footscray. I probably won't lose too much sleep over it but I think we got this decision wrong. North have done well to change their team name back and make a stand of it here and I think we should follow suit.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  8. #23
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    Re: What's in a name? Plenty

    Quote Originally Posted by Sockeye Salmon View Post
    I understand why it was done and I actually think it has made a difference, maybe not as significantly as they hoped it would.

    There are an awful lot of Bulldog jumpers at Auskick clinics all over the Western Suburbs these days and that has to be a good thing.

    Well said.

    Don't kill the goose before it has hatched, or whatever mangled metaphor you want to use.

    I love Footscray as much as the next guy, but I don't think we'll find too many Doggies supporters who left footy because of our name change, but I personally know new arrivals to the Western Suburbs who have adopted the team simply because it's their local team now. I doubt that would have happened if it was still a suburb specific name.

    It was an incredibly savvy move to in one fell swoop identify ourselves with a whole half of a city. The real benefits will not be seen now, but ten, twenty years down the track when our future and identity is firmly cemented into the entire western suburbs. As SS said, you only have to go to any Auskick clinic out in the West to know that this is true. I have nephews and neices with Essendon and Collingwood parents who live out in the West who are now die-hard Doggies fans because of the work the team does in their school. This is the next generation of Dogs members.

    As I've said in another post, the western suburbs of Melbourne is the site of the next non-mining related economic boom, with the area slated to grow at a rate greater than almost any other area in Australia. We are best and uniquely placed to take advantage of that, being the ONLY national sporting team in the area -- no Rugby League, no Soccer. The move has cemented our place in Melbourne as well -- no way the AFL will tear us out of the area now, needing to maintain a presence in the area. There is ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT that if we were still Footscray we would NOT have gotten the state and national government and AFL funding for our brand new facilities.

    If our identity remained suburb specific we would be a lot more likely to be talked about in terms of relocation. (The Kangaroos are not a similar case as their name change was not geographical and did not have much logic to it apart from branding -- our name change EXPANDED our geographical identity and made us even more local than before)

    With the impending boom and our future assured, why would we slit our own wrists and throw away every advantage we've worked hard to gain over the last ten years just as we on the cusp of reaping the rewards, just to appease some vague notion of nostalgia? If we didn't exist anymore those who want us to change our name back can have all the nostalgia you want.

  9. #24
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    Re: What's in a name? Plenty

    Compelling reasons enough, Rocket Science? Any compelling reasons why we WOULD change our name back apart from appealing to nostalgia to a past filled largely with failure, instability and near bankruptcy?

    You would kill a very real potential to become a super-club on the back of going back to a time that we all feared for our very existence?

  10. #25
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    Re: What's in a name? Plenty

    ps. I just had a look at the FNWB website, and every reason that the person who put up the site has written for us to change our name back is logically flawed. I COULD go over every single reason and rip it apart rationally but it should suffice that I say he has tried to dress up an emotional argument with a rational veneer.

    Now, it's fair enough some (including myself) feel emotionally about the name change, but let's not pretend that it is in any way logical or defensible in a reasonable sense, because it is not. It is a fundamentally irrational position, which is not wrong in itself, but let's at least admit it to ourselves.

    I wish we were still Footscray too, in my heart, but my head says that the name change has had nothing but upside to it. Those of us who miss it still call it the 'Scray anyway. We are not, and will never be, the West Coast Eagles (a corporate creation), because there are those of us who will always be here to tell the old stories.

    --

    ps. Funny story -- A mate and I call up ticketmaster/ticketek (I forget which), and he asks for tickets to the Footscray - Essendon game, and the call centre guy (I will refrain from calling him a muppet) says 'There's no such game this weekend, sir'. My mate repeats himself, and the guy insists that the only game Essendon is involved in this weekend is one against the 'Western Bulldogs'. My mate -- who is nearly 70, and is as dyed-in-the-wool a Dogs man as they come -- couldn't stop laughing. The name change hasn't changed his love for the club one single whit.

    Re: the call centre guy, my only rationale for his innocent ignorance would be that Ticketek/ticketmaster have call centres in India/Phillipines/Sydney, where the subtleties of our beautiful game of AFL are clearly lost.

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