Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

[Stefcep]

And who has hid the fact of it being a toxic dump
Why wasnt the council out protesting about it if they care about peoples health and other problems?
Wouldnt be because of the almighty dollar would it?
So council cares about 40 poker machines but doesnt care if they all get cancer?
Not having a go at you stefcep just asking the question.
Wouldnt that have been a more important issue?

its the same deal in Cairnlea. i had the opportunity to speak to a developer at Cairnlea- he came into out store- and I asked him about this. He said they dig away the natural ground and fill it with clean soil. they then take soil samples and test for toxic levels of heavy metals to make sure they meet safety standards, and these independent tests are submitted to Council with the permit. So the Council only knows what the scientists/testers/health departments tell them. With this info, council can't knock the application back. i expect its the same with Edgewater.

But for ME i thought "how many times do you here them say 10-15-20 years later when kids start getting cancers coz they play in the dirt that they thought those levels were safe AT THE TIME but now know they are not." Maybe there is no safety issue, but I wasn't gonna find out with my 2 year old playing in the dirt.

And there are structural issues when building on filled land as well to consider.

Thats why I chose not live there.

[Dry Rot]

I enquired about Edgewater at stage 1. It was promoted as a new inner city community with strict restrictions on design and even builder choice, promoting a family focused environment with restaurants, boutique shops, parks, kids playgrounds within walking distance of most homes. There is no way they would've openly promoted a pokies venue/ 20 hour per day alcohol joint because it would have been at odds with what they were trying to achieve and would have affected sales of those properties closest to that venue.

Reasonable line: you ask the questions:

1. what's the likely impact on the locals if the venue is built? Were the locals misled by the developer to the point that it affected their decision to purchase?

2. whats the likely impact on the surounding area if the venue is not built.

3. what alternative locations are there for the developer?

Fair points on the face of it - living away from there, I have no feel for what is happening down there.

[Dry Rot]

The only point im making is that the councillor said that they didnt want anymore pokies in the area, the fact is there wont be any MORE pokies in the area, they already exist.
The councillor saying we dont want anymore is insinuating more poker machines are coming, that is not true but will fool some people into thinking more pokies are being added.
Thus getting peoples backs up in support of something that just is not true.
That is spin doctoring.
Why cant the councillor just say we dont want the pokies to be moved to Edgewater?
On a personal note I dont have an opinion on it as i dont live in Edgewater.
Whether the pokies are there or not is not what I or TCD are alluding to, its the statement made that is wrong.
Of course residents should decide on things like this but its the councillors job to tell the truth also, not mislead.

Sorry, but I'm laughing from a NSW pokie POV.

However, let's take my local govt area - the City of Sydney. Relocating a late night booze and pokies joint from say Kings Cross to say suburban Annandale would be a huge difference. And impact on the locals.

[Dry Rot]

Interesting. i opted not to go into edgewater because its built on landfill because the original site was the Australian Defense Industries site: where they made explosives using toxic chemicals that had leached into the soil..most people living there now don't know this either..

They will find out when their kids do really well at school, and overlook that their kids have two heads.

[Sockeye Salmon]

As a single guy, the invisible hand comes in useful sometimes.

That's the first post on this thread worth reading.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Interesting. i opted not to go into edgewater because its built on landfill because the original site was the Australian Defense Industries site: where they made explosives using toxic chemicals that had leached into the soil..most people living there now don't know this either..

Actually no.

Craiglee is built on the old Albion Explosives Nitric Acid plant. I don't remember seeing that on the brochure.

Edgewater is built on the Maribynong Ordinance offices and laboratories, no nasty stuff happened there.

I did my apprenticeship alternating between both.

[Dry Rot]

That's the first post on this thread worth reading.

Thanks, but I won't post pics.

[ledge]

I thought ICI next to Cairnlea was where all the explosives and stuff were detonated.

Actually I played footy and cricket at what is known as the Merv Hughes oval nowadays 30 years ago and Edgewater as it is known now I always thought was just the local old tip.

Dry Rot i see your point about Kings cross and the pokies and moving to an outer suburb, but this is just a kilometre down the road and the same suburb.

Alcohol might be more a problem and drunks but the main point was "the pokies".

In the years of poker machines coming into pubs i believe it has lessened the amount of drunks as pubs are forced to have a good environment or close down.
I feel a lot safer in a poker venue than a pub with no pokies.

[LostDoggy]

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/fix...097241994.html

Hawthorn get approved to build a pokies venue in our backyard, miles away from thier area but we can't move a few machine that were already there down the road?

[The Coon Dog]

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/fix...097241994.html

Hawthorn get approved to build a pokies venue in our backyard, miles away from thier area but we can't move a few machine that were already there down the road?

'THE Hawthorn Football Club's climb up the AFL ladder has again been emphatically matched by the club's off-field success with the awarding of a multimillion-dollar gaming-machine licence at Caroline Springs.

Only hours before last Friday night's anticipated clash with Geelong, the Victorian Commission for Gambling Regulation granted the Hawks a licence for 80 poker machines at the soon-to-be-built West Waters development — the only hotel in Caroline Springs.

The gaming licence is believed to be the biggest awarded in Victoria in seven years and is expected to add more than $1 million to the Hawks' annual profit.'

Thanks Ern, interesting.

[Stefcep]

I thought ICI next to Cairnlea was where all the explosives and stuff were detonated.

Actually I played footy and cricket at what is known as the Merv Hughes oval nowadays 30 years ago and Edgewater as it is known now I always thought was just the local old tip.

Dry Rot i see your point about Kings cross and the pokies and moving to an outer suburb, but this is just a kilometre down the road and the same suburb.

Alcohol might be more a problem and drunks but the main point was "the pokies".

In the years of poker machines coming into pubs i believe it has lessened the amount of drunks as pubs are forced to have a good environment or close down.
I feel a lot safer in a poker venue than a pub with no pokies.

the land that Cairnleas is built on was fenced off with hazardous materials signs for many many years. I can confirm that someone working for the developer did say to me that the land was contaminated, but that it would be safe, and he said that during the time that they had just started digging and filling it. Beyond that I don't know its history.

[Stefcep]

Actually no.

Craiglee is built on the old Albion Explosives Nitric Acid plant. I don't remember seeing that on the brochure.

Edgewater is built on the Maribynong Ordinance offices and laboratories, no nasty stuff happened there.

I did my apprenticeship alternating between both.

Speaking to someone at their sales office after i noticed a lot of soil was being removed and replaced, i asked the sales staff about it. they said the natural soil was contaminated in some places but would be totally safe after development works had finished. Whether thats right or not I don't know but there sure was a hell of a lot of soil being trucked in.

[Stefcep]

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/fix...097241994.html

Hawthorn get approved to build a pokies venue in our backyard, miles away from thier area but we can't move a few machine that were already there down the road?

The question needs to be asked though: why do footy clubs from OUTSIDE THE WESTERN SUBURBS choose to open gambling venues IN THE WESTERN SUBURBS? same with Collingwood I think. Why choose the West?

Again its a local planning issue. Did the locals object? On what local planning grounds? Is the proposed development in a commercial or primarily residential area etc.
,

[Stefcep]

'THE Hawthorn Football Club's climb up the AFL ladder has again been emphatically matched by the club's off-field success with the awarding of a multimillion-dollar gaming-machine licence at Caroline Springs.

Only hours before last Friday night's anticipated clash with Geelong, the Victorian Commission for Gambling Regulation granted the Hawks a licence for 80 poker machines at the soon-to-be-built West Waters development — the only hotel in Caroline Springs.

The gaming licence is believed to be the biggest awarded in Victoria in seven years and is expected to add more than $1 million to the Hawks' annual profit.'

Thanks Ern, interesting.

maybe the dogs should have got in before the hawks at caroline Springs, maybe they should have guaged the public sentiment at edgewater, and that at Caroline Springs?

[Sockeye Salmon]

I thought ICI next to Cairnlea was where all the explosives and stuff were detonated.

ICI is across the road.

Albion Explosives consisted of the Nitric Acid plant (where Craiglee is now), RDX plastic explosive (back towards St. Albans where another estate is now) and NitroGlycerine and rocket propellant behind the Deer Park Hotel. There was also a TNT plant which would be roughly where the back of Craiglee is now.

There is no way to stop making TNT other than to "drown" it. What we used to do was make TNT 24/7 for 3 months every three years (that was enough) and when it was time to stop we pushed the emergency stop button and everything in the process was dumped into aeorated water. This created an enormous Nitric Acid cloud that covered most of the Western Suburbs.

So there were no complaints we did it at 4am.


I heard recently that ICI was to be closed down soon but has received a new lease of life picking up the slack from all the Chinese competitors who have had to close down due to the Olympics.