Ins and Outs - qualifying Final

[1eyedog]

Reason you think its ludicrous?

In all honestly he will be LOST IN SPACE! He will get eaten alive and I cannot see a match up for him other than a Brown who swings or starts forward. He goes hard, but he gives away 2.2 free kicks a game in the games he has played. I don not want them 25m out from the Hawthorn goal. He is also a bits and pieces man. Too small to play on Franklin or Roughhead, too slow and cumbersome for Rioli and Williams. Brown is the only match up assuming he plays forward. He's not up to it, but neither are Wight or Everitt so it's a real quandary is Rocket wants to bring in an extra tall.

[BulldogBelle]

Why is Tiller ludicrous? BOG for Willy, big body and we need big bodies v Hawks. Played well v Hawks last time, gives us options at either end. I reckon having all three of Hill, Higgins and Harbrow leaves us with little consistently applied defensive pressure. I know he's been poor in second half of year, but our options are limited.

[Ozza]

The reason I think picking Tiller would be ludicrous is that he is clearly not up to it.

Firstly I don't believe he has had a single game that has shown that he is truly up to the level at this stage. A bloke like Tiller will get eaten up by the pressure of finals. You'll ask "How do you know that?".

well, to that - look at the Geelong game and the Sydney game - teams that apply enormous amounts of pressure - he couldn't even get the ball onto his boot most of the time, was terribly indecisive and was a liability every time he went near it.

I don't believe he shows the intensity, nor the poise required to compete in the environment of finals.
He IS NOT a BIG BODY. He is a lean type, only 190cms, has zero physical presence- is not tall enough or strong enough for the big guys - yet not quick or agile enough for the smaller or mid size types. He does not give an option up forward either - I can't remember seeing him take a decent grab or be creative enough to suggest he'll find a goal or make one happen.
He also does not make tackles stick. We can't afford to play him.

And don't try and tell me he deserves a spot because he played well for Williamstown...the standard is poles apart and they lost. The first week of finals is not time to start picking blokes on VFL form.

Tiller is ONLY a top up player - a depth player if you will - and to play him in our most important game for 10 years - is negligible.

[mjp]

Playing Tiller because of his size is pointless. The coaches never, ever, ever, ever play him as a tall at AFL level - he always gets played as a flanker-type. Should they? I don't know - but it is clear to me that they don't think he is up to doing that sort of job (yet) so there is no value in picking him to do that.

Ray needs to play - he is more AFL ready than Ward or Reid at this stage and will provide more possession and run and carry than either of those two. He simply has to come in.

If Hudson is not fit, then we are in a world of trouble...it is not worth contemplating.

[BulldogBelle]

Good points. Would you address the need for another type or leave as is? As stated by 1eye, Wight and Everitt not exactly flying either. Bringing in Ray and leaving in Hill/Harbrow/Higgins?

[The Pie Man]

Good points. Would you address the need for another type or leave as is? As stated by 1eye, Wight and Everitt not exactly flying either. Bringing in Ray and leaving in Hill/Harbrow/Higgins?

Let's assume Hudson is fit, then Skipper & Reid are likely outs.

We can't play the back 6 that played Adelaide against Hawthorn, and Tiller appears the only 'tall' (yes, he's only 190 cms) in any kind of form. Maybe we gamble on Everitt.

[mjp]

Well, if you assume Lake gets off (and I have no idea what is going to happen):

Lake - Roughead
Morris - Buddy
Gilbee - Williams (a roll of the dice on my behalf, but we HAVE to attack)
Hargrave - Rioli (forget his size, he plays best on opposition smalls)

What exactly do we need Wight or Everitt for? OK, if Brown plays then we need to account for him, but it is not as if we need to play a giant on him. Franklin and Roughead have kicked nearly 170 goals between them....and yes, I wish I had another option for Franklin so I could play Morris on Williams, but we don't so no point worrying about it...suck it up and get on with it. It is a final. Play your best players (or best available) and match them up as well as you can - if we are prepared to get first hands on the footy and run through the Hawthorn mid-field zone (and not try to go around it) and we can hit up Johnson, Murphy and Welsh inside 50m then we will win.

If we allow Lewis, Mitchell, Sewell and co to dominate the stoppages, let Hodge run wild across half back and if we turn the ball over by foot, we will LOSE.

The selection of the 22nd player is not going to decide this game. Whether our better players (Cooney, Griffen, Murphy) play better than theirs is going to be the difference.

[Ozza]

Timmy Callan should play on Cyril.
Hargrave can match up with Williams, plus lake/Rough and Morris/Buddy.

Those 4 match ups make the most sense to me...and Gilbee is freed up to be an attacking HBF'er.

Could we roll the dice with Eagleton playing on Hodge is Hodge is playing the running Half Back game?

[mjp]

Timmy Callan should play on Cyril.
Hargrave can match up with Williams, plus lake/Rough and Morris/Buddy.

Those 4 match ups make the most sense to me...and Gilbee is freed up to be an attacking HBF'er.

Could we roll the dice with Eagleton playing on Hodge is Hodge is playing the running Half Back game?

Shaggy struggles against leading players...this wouldn't work. I would really like to make Hawthorn react to us...they would not like the Gilbee/Williams match-up as they know Williams would cheat and Gilbee would run off. Callan is nowhere near smart enough to play on Rioli - he needs to take an Osborne or someone of that ilk.

[Sedat]

Shaggy struggles against leading players...this wouldn't work. I would really like to make Hawthorn react to us...they would not like the Gilbee/Williams match-up as they know Williams would cheat and Gilbee would run off. Callan is nowhere near smart enough to play on Rioli - he needs to take an Osborne or someone of that ilk.

Agreed 100%. Shaggy is our besr defender on opposition smalls so he should get Junior Boy - he has torched the likes of Milne and Farmer this season. Callan can take an Osborne or any of the other smaller forwards that Hawthorn rotate through. Like the Gilbee on Mark Williams match-up as well.

[Mofra]

What happens when the Hawks play a resting ruckman forward in the pocket? Teams would obviously try to exploit our most obvious weakness being height in defence.
Would we be willing to roll the dice on Campbell/Taylor with Gilbee? In 2005 he was our only player to match up on an opposition ruckman from every other team.

Otherwise, we'd want someone who could at least threaten to compete in the air.

[bornadog]

If Hudson is not fit, then we are in a world of trouble...it is not worth contemplating.

Street or Skipper for you MJP, if no Huddo

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Shaggy struggles against leading players...this wouldn't work. I would really like to make Hawthorn react to us...they would not like the Gilbee/Williams match-up as they know Williams would cheat and Gilbee would run off. Callan is nowhere near smart enough to play on Rioli - he needs to take an Osborne or someone of that ilk.

I'm assuming Hawthorn will send Osborne to Gilbee, in order to negate Lindsay's run off half back. Hargrave does tend to struggle with leading players but I think he may get the first crack at Williams, unless they swap it around, and play Callan on Williams & Hargrave on Rioli.

At least we've got a few options on the Hawks smaller types with Hargrave, Callan & Gilbee.

[Rocket Science]

The selection of the 22nd player is not going to decide this game. Whether our better players (Cooney, Griffen, Murphy) play better than theirs is going to be the difference.

Precisely...it's go time...tinkering at the edges is incidental...our regulars in the side simply need to be better at this stage.

[Bulldogs_6]

Honestly I think too much of the issue here is on the defensive side of things. If we play the way we did at the start of the year we would hurt them going forward rather than worrying on their attack capabilities.
The real stat is that Roughead and Franklin are unstoppable, they have kicked 170 odd goals between them ffs. If we can hurt them through the midfield and focus on our attack I think we are in for a fair shot at it