What went wrong.

[Twodogs]

Yeah I watched it again on saturday night when everyone had gone to bed.


1. Leadership-for me this was the thing that screamed out more than anything else and the one thing that could have affected everything that went wrong. I'm not saying that by itself it would have fixed any of our shortcomings but it's where you start and, simply and tragically, we have none. It pains me to say it but if any of our guys played or led like Hodge, Mitchell or Bateman we wouldnt have copped the anal probing that we did.

2. Eagleton. Simply should never play for us again-the guys lost a yard of pace and the tools he has left leave him significantly short of what is required. The coach has tried to find him a new trick all year but it just aint working.

3. I cant figure out how we settled so well and then lost it halfway through the first quarter.


4. I love Daniel Cross but he should never find himself more than an arms length away from the footy for the remainder of his career. friday night was a debacle for him and the coaching staff. Hell of a time for a bloke to find out he's way out of his depth in a certain position but it's done with now. On friday night I expect to see him line up in the guts and only leave the on ball possie to rotate on and off.

[1eyedog]

I'm not sure he will be a ball-winning midfielder anytime soon, if he can;t string games together how will he develop the cardiovascular required to play midfielde rin more than bursts? He probably doesn't have the explosive pace of a Griffen to play in bursts.
His finishing seems to be his best asset and he's decent overhead for his size. Probably more a Shannon Grant type.

Maybe, but I think you're selling him a bit short. Don't get me wrong Shag was a great player, you have to be to play 300 but IMO he got the best out of himself and maintained that level pretty much throughout his career. Grant never excelled in the midfield IMO. Higgins will be a Shannon Grant type player for the next 2 years but once he finds confidence in his abilities he COULD be an exceptional midfielder. So called footy experts have already earmarked him as a possible leader of the club and are already talking up his ability. It's pretty much up to him what he wants to be.

[bornadog]

I think Higgins has shown enough in the past to perserver with, however, I tend to agree with Mantis and JC that he should not have been considered for Friday night and should be dropped this week. He just is not ready to be playing finals football and seems lost out there.

Looking at the game, Eade tried to use the wings to get around the Cluster, which resulted in over use of the ball as Hawthorn seem to have us covered and when we switched to the corridor, we were surrounded and ended up handballing to players under pressure. We ended up with nearly 80 more disposals than Hawthorn (same against Adelaide), but we just didn't seem to get our run going and wasted our opportunities.

Hawthorn cleared out their forward 50 at each bounce with the entire backline up near the centre square and with just two players in the goal square, ie Franklin and either Morris or Lake. If we wanted to go a bit defensive, maybe we should have had a loose player in front of Franklin?

Lets hope we have learnt alot from this final and play a different brand of football this week.

[Mantis]

I think Higgins has shown enough in the past to perserver with, however, I tend to agree with Mantis and JC that he should not have been considered for Friday night and should be dropped this week. He just is not ready to be playing finals football and seems lost out there.

Looking at the game, Eade tried to use the wings to get around the Cluster, which resulted in over use of the ball as Hawthorn seem to have us covered and when we switched to the corridor, we were surrounded and ended up handballing to players under pressure. We ended up with nearly 80 more disposals than Hawthorn (same against Adelaide), but we just didn't seem to get our run going and wasted our opportunities.

Hawthorn cleared out their forward 50 at each bounce with the entire backline up near the centre square and with just two players in the goal square, ie Franklin and either Morris or Lake. If we wanted to go a bit defensive, maybe we should have had a loose player in front of Franklin?

Lets hope we have learnt alot from this final and play a different brand of football this week.

We did because Cross dropped back into this hole. It didn't work because Cross didn't use the ball well enough when he got it and Cross's opponent (Lewis) was allowed to run free through the middle of the ground.

[bornadog]

We did because Cross dropped back into this hole. It didn't work because Cross didn't use the ball well enough when he got it and Cross's opponent (Lewis) was allowed to run free through the middle of the ground.

Wrong player in the hole.

[The Underdog]

We did because Cross dropped back into this hole. It didn't work because Cross didn't use the ball well enough when he got it and Cross's opponent (Lewis) was allowed to run free through the middle of the ground.

He also didn't position himself anywhere near well enough to be consistently effective. He got caught out in the wrong spot too often.

[bornadog]

He also didn't position himself anywhere near well enough to be consistently effective. He got caught out in the wrong spot too often.

because he doesn't norma;lly play that role. Maybe Rob Murphy should have gone there.

[Mantis]

because he doesn't norma;lly play that role. Maybe Rob Murphy should have gone there.

The same Rob Murphy who will push very close to being an AA HF this year?

[dog town]

Easy thing to say after it has happened but Eade didn't have a great night. He will probably be aware of that but it doesn't really matter when your team is completely out worked for much of the night.

Hawthorn probably doubled our work rate. People say they were harder and they were but it was only marginal. The reason they won alot of clear ball from contested situations all over the ground is because they had more numbers and support around the ball. They always had a sweeper out the back and 3 or 4 guys offering support. When they broke from a contest they did t cleanly. When we somehow managed to get our hands on the ball from a 50/50 we were out numbered and forced to kick blindly.

In finals little thing turn into big things and it showed which side was better drilled at the little things. This might sound basic but I have always been taught that you recieve a handpass from behind the ball carrier. This means you can see all the play ahead, eliminates risk and also allows the handballer to follow you round and protect you from any opponents. The amount of times we handpassed to a guy that was already past the guy he was recieving it from was ridiculous. It resulted in probably dozens of turnovers. Just a very high risk and pointless way of doing it.

Lake probably should have played on Franklin but I wont criticise Eade for it because Morris was my first option as well.

Aker playing down back was a howler of a decision. We looked mildly capable of beating them when Aker was up forward.

Hill showed a bit I thought. He will be a pretty valuable asset in years to come with his overhead marking becoming a real handfull. I will also say that he failed to bodyline the ball a couple of times and took a sideways step which is something he needs to stamp out.

Ray was pretty ordinary. Not sure why people were expecting him to suddenly become the saviour simply because he has played one good finals game in the past. Cost us any early momentum by butchering some easy chnaces early then turned the ball over all night.

Cross, Lake and Guido all had a dip. So did Hargrave.

Minson tried all night but didn't have much luck. Got raped by Croad early and the umpire swallowed his whistle. I really think he gets a harsh run with the umpires at times.

Hahn was clearly struggling with his ribs.

[bornadog]

The same Rob Murphy who will push very close to being an AA HF this year?

Yep, the same Rob Murphy who has barely had a kick for 6 weeks and kicked zero goals.

[Happy Days]

Yep, the same Rob Murphy who has barely had a kick for 6 weeks and kicked zero goals.

His role isn't to kick goals, it's to lead up and take grabs so the players who do "kick goals" (Welsh, Minson) can have space to lead into, then to play on quickly so the aforementioned "goal kickers" can have first use of the ball.

And his past 6 weeks weren't that bad...he certainly hasn't been our worst.

[GetDimmaBack]

Originally Posted by mantis
Here are a few observations I made:

* When we ran out, through the warm-up and the national anthem we look scared. There was no confidence in our players appearance, we, as Eade mentioned looked over-awed.

* Our skill errors get to a point of almost being amusing. **** me, how many times did we hand the ball to the opposition on a platter. Gia, Eagleton (I'll get to him later), Ray, Cross, Murf, Higgins the list goes on. Not good enough boys, shit they only train every second day to play in games like these and when we get there we freeze.

* Too many of our player's go to ground in the contest, again not good enough.


* As we do when we are struggling we started bombing the ball into an out-numbered & out-sized forwardline, it's just plain silly. Hold onto the ball until a option present's and if one doesn't hug the boundary.


* Our tactics were bemusing, we picked an attacking team, but played defensively. Did he pick the right team to carry out his instrustions? I suppose do we have the right players to carry out these instructions?



Have also just had another look at the tape, and I must agree with what you've said Mantis.

IMO, all of the factors above are an indication of a lack of belief, in both themselves and each other. The Hawks had that belief and played accordingly. I'm not sure where - or why - that belief has disappeared, but it is a clear indication of the current mindset of the team. Earlier in the season, I just assumed we would win, because I knew the players believed they would. By the time the national anthem was finished on Friday night, it was obvious that the Hawks had already intimidated us and we were in trouble.

In light of that, I was even more impressed with Ryan Griffen. He took the Hawks on, used his body well and didn't look uncomfortable out there at any stage. Yes, we are looking for leaders, and I think he put up his hand for the captaincy when Johnno gives it away.

[BulldogBelle]

On another tangent, do we think Johnno will retain the captainship next season? Pushing 32, would it be in his interest and the clubs interest that he focused on getting his body 100% right, and concentrated on his own personal game, rather than bearing the captain/leaders role?

[1eyedog]

On another tangent, do we think Johnno will retain the captainship next season? Pushing 32, would it be in his interest and the clubs interest that he focused on getting his body 100% right, and concentrated on his own personal game, rather than bearing the captain/leaders role?

Mate, after watching Johnno's last eight weeks I am undecided whether he should even go on. He is giving us nothing and shirking contests. Very unusual.

[1eyedog]

I'm not sure he will be a ball-winning midfielder anytime soon, if he can;t string games together how will he develop the cardiovascular required to play midfielde rin more than bursts? He probably doesn't have the explosive pace of a Griffen to play in bursts.
His finishing seems to be his best asset and he's decent overhead for his size. Probably more a Shannon Grant type.

After stewing on this for a while I have concluded that if Higgins lays 300 games and kicks as many goals for us as Grant has done at Sydney and North I would be very happy.