Jordan Roughead

[stefoid]

Obviously that would hurt every side badly, it's just that we have no 4th ruck at all. Cordy hasn't played and isn't ready, we would have to turn to a non-ruckman such as Everitt, Hahn or Williams. Added to this is the fact our number 1 is over 30, and our number 2 has had no pre-season.

Fingers crossed it's a non-issue, but for the last spot on the list Skipper may have been handy for one more season.

You only need to watch Adelaide v Essendon in the finals last year to see what damage this can do to your side

Rather play Everitt than Skipper.

[boydogs]

Name one quality 4th ruck - in any team.

Port have one experienced ruckman to choose from so their round 1 2nd ruck will be a debutant! Carton would probably come closest with Sam Jacobs as a 4th ruck (rookie) but that assumes Kreuzer will play as a ruck this year - he wont, he'll be at CHF.
I think you're stretching the level of cover a team is supposed to have - even 3rd ruck options at Brisbane & Essendon developed as CHB types who rucked last year out of necessity. Keeping 5-6 list cloggers on any list as "back-up" will hurt the system of development required to find the players who will make the grade at senior level.

Sometimes you need to take a gamble, as safe football & safe options will not win a flag.
We have gambled on ruck cover & a Bazza Hall to take then next step - if that means using a Prato, Mulligan, Williams or Everitt to pinch hit for one or two games per year if (heaven forbid) Hudson & Minson both go down at the same time, then so be it.

Good post, I am enjoying the debate.
Port have Brogan, Westhoff, Lobbe, Trengove and Cloke. Geelong have Ottens, Blake, West and Simpson, and did also have Mumford. St Kilda have King, Gardiner, Kosi, McEvoy and Stanley. Collingwood have Jolly, Fraser, Wood and L Brown. Brisbane have Clark, Charman, Leuenberger and Brennan. Carlton you mentioned have Kreuzer, Hampson, Warnock and Jacobs. North have McIntosh, Hale, Petrie, Goldstein

4 playable ruck options plus a couple developing does take up a chunk of your list, so having some as rookies and others that can play other roles for the side becomes important. We have Prato as a rookie, as was Shaw, but Cordy on the main list. None of our ruck options however can play permanently in other positions for us like Ryder, Brennan, L Brown, Kreuzer, Kosi can. This makes it tougher to keep a pure ruck backup option around, but I feel it is more important than backup in other areas where we could throw players around more readily

Rather play Everitt than Skipper.

I'm a little surprised we haven't given Everitt a run in the ruck in the NAB cup to see if he can become the 4th option for us, as a mobile though undersized option, ala Round 22 2009

If Skipper was any good, we would have kept him. Too many supporters were just hoping he was going to make it in the AFL. He is too short to be a genuine ruckman and too slow to be a KPP.

Agree, Roughead has probably gone past him already, but behind him there is not much and I would feel a little more comfortable having Skipper still around

[chef]

Rather play Everitt than Skipper.

Me too.

[Rocco Jones]

I definitely see Dre as a back up ruck option and would prefer him over Skipper as well.

There can be a massive difference between the roles of a 1st and 2nd ruck. There's no way I would consider Dre as a 1st ruck but his versatility makes him a decent 2nd ruck against the right opposition imo. I still would have Roughead as our number 3 either way though.

[bornadog]

Rather play Everitt than Skipper.

I definitely see Dre as a back up ruck option and would prefer him over Skipper as well.

There can be a massive difference between the roles of a 1st and 2nd ruck. There's no way I would consider Dre as a 1st ruck but his versatility makes him a decent 2nd ruck against the right opposition imo. I still would have Roughead as our number 3 either way though.

Me too.

Everitt should not be considered a ruck option. The only reason Eade used him last year against Collingwood, is because they had NO rucks and we had no option. It was also a message to Skipper.

[Hotdog60]

I thought the hawks would have gave Skipper a game against his old club, he got a go in round 1.

[chef]

Everitt should not be considered a ruck option. The only reason Eade used him last year against Collingwood, is because they had NO rucks and we had no option. It was also a message to Skipper.

IMO if two of Minson, Hudson and Roughead are injured then he and Williams would be our best options to play as a 2ND ruck(mobile pinch hitters). Cordy's not ready yet, Prato is a project ATM, Mulligan I don't know enough about, Boumann is still developing(and is a KPD hopefully) and Jones doesn't have the fitness.

[GVGjr]

Name one quality 4th ruck - in any team.

North have Hale, McIntosh, Goldstein and have Petrie who could spend 10 minutes a quarter there if necessary.
The Saints have Gardiner, King, McEvoy plus have Kosi who like Petrie can spend time there plus they have Stanley coming along nicely.
The Cats have Ottens, West, Blake and have Mooney and Hawkins who can handle some ruck work in the forward line if necessary.


The point I think that's trying to be made is that in an ideal situation Roughead wouldn't be the outright 3rd ruckman for the side in his 2nd season especially with a history of shoulder injuries.

[Mantis]

The point I think that's trying to be made is that in an ideal situation Roughead wouldn't be the outright 3rd ruckman for the side in his 2nd season especially with a history of shoulder injuries.

If we were devoid of ruck options I am sure they could throw Mulligan into the mix to help out.

[GVGjr]

If we were devoid of ruck options I am sure they could throw Mulligan into the mix to help out.

He's a pretty average ruckman for the reserves at Williamstown and the best he could do is probably run with his opponent.

[Mofra]

North have Hale, McIntosh, Goldstein and have Petrie who could spend 10 minutes a quarter there if necessary.
The Saints have Gardiner, King, McEvoy plus have Kosi who like Petrie can spend time there plus they have Stanley coming along nicely.
The Cats have Ottens, West, Blake and have Mooney and Hawkins who can handle some ruck work in the forward line if necessary.

Might be a bit generous with Kosi & Petrie - yes they can pinch hit in the ruck, but that would be robbing their structure somewhat.

Geelong are the closest to having the necessary cover, however Mooney is still their no 1 forward so would hurt their structure, and Hawkins would be maginally more effective long term than Everitt, whom I don't think is a ruck.

The point I think that's trying to be made is that in an ideal situation Roughead wouldn't be the outright 3rd ruckman for the side in his 2nd season especially with a history of shoulder injuries.

I agree it's not ideal, however he has shown he can play the minutes there if one of Minson or Hudson play extended minutes as the no 1 option if need be.

(Has been difficult resisting the urge to point out Cooney's effort against Cox )

[Mofra]

Port have Brogan, Westhoff, Lobbe, Trengove and Cloke. Geelong have Ottens, Blake, West and Simpson, and did also have Mumford. St Kilda have King, Gardiner, Kosi, McEvoy and Stanley. Collingwood have Jolly, Fraser, Wood and L Brown. Brisbane have Clark, Charman, Leuenberger and Brennan. Carlton you mentioned have Kreuzer, Hampson, Warnock and Jacobs. North have McIntosh, Hale, Petrie, Goldstein

Port is an interesting one - they have the luxury of having a senior ruck rookie that doesn't eat up gametime for their youngsters at the lower level due to the spread of SANFL representation.
Westhoff & Trengove are a bit of a stretch to nominate due to size, although by alkl accounbt Lobbe played well at SANFL last season and is in line for a debut round 1.

L Brown for the Pies would be less effective than Williams for us.
Brennan would be the equivalent to Everitt for us.

I've covered the others previously. No team could comfortably cover for losing their two first choice ruck options without trying raw types or hurting their structure elsewhere.

[GVGjr]

Might be a bit generous with Kosi & Petrie - yes they can pinch hit in the ruck, but that would be robbing their structure somewhat.

They can certainly ruck very well in the forward line allowing the team mate to position themselves a kick behind play and have a bit of a spell.
Both have done some work in the ruck as well and are no stranger to it.

[GVGjr]

Gambling on Grant over McEvoy was Claytons decision to make. McEvoy hasn't set the world on fire, but has done more than Grant. How do you see McEvoy developing GVG?

I guess Eade and co have gambled on the fact that when Minson and Hudson aren't both available that Roughy can play second fiddle. I guess if two of those three go down then we are looking at Cordy, Prato etc.

McEvoy has done OK but still has a way to go.

[Mofra]

They can certainly ruck very well in the forward line allowing the team mate to position themselves a kick behind play and have a bit of a spell.
Both have done some work in the ruck as well and are no stranger to it.

Their value is up forward though - robbing Peter twice to pay Paul. Yes they can ruck, but at what expense to the team?