Jordan Roughead

[GVGjr]

Their value is up forward though - robbing Peter twice to pay Paul. Yes they can ruck, but at what expense to the team?

It hasn't caused these sides too much issues when they have used them there. It's just an additional back-up plan.

[Mofra]

It hasn't caused these sides too much issues when they have used them there. It's just an additional back-up plan.

That in itself is open to enough conjecture to be the subject of a thread itself.

[Go_Dogs]

That in itself is open to enough conjecture to be the subject of a thread itself.

I think the underlying point though, is that should necessity dictate, those sides have some more mature options who are able to lend a hand and provide coverage - which has to be beneficial and would perhaps allow a younger ruck (ie. Roughead, or McEvoy) to play better football over a longer period by reducing the burden they'd face.

If we have the scenario where Minson and Hudson go down at the same time (touching wood it won't happen) we're buggered. Roughead and Everitt are not going to be able to hold down the ruck duties. Lake can't, Mulligan can't and Hall certainly at his age shouldn't be thrown into the ruck.

It's not ideal to have to move a forward like Kosi or a utility like Petrie into the ruck, but it sure as hell beats having to limp through without any meaningful coverage.

Unless, of course, we're going with the school of thought that rucks aren't that important for Premiership sides, which could also be another topic worthy of its own thread

Either way, it's a bit late to worry about a Plan D and we need to hope our guys can stay on the park. Good discussion.

[mjp]

I am in the 'Always draft a ruckman' category. Every year. Just to see what might happen. But I am not too worried at the moment - and that is for two main reasons.

- Our front-line ruck stocks (Hudson and Minson) play a similar style of footy...although Minson has a mile to go to replicate Hudson's willingness to get his hands dirty post- ruck knock. Yes, I know Minson has been injured...which to me means he will be coming into his own at around about round 16 when Hudson traditionally collapses under the weight of workload for a couple of weeks and can use a rest in any case. Roughead needs gametime in any case - 10-12 games I hope during the year - and his is good enough to play 35 minutes a game.

- Our on-ball division is very good at winning the contested ball.

The main thing that worries me about opposition rucks are those who can run forward and kick a goal - like Jolly - that they will be too clever for Roughead and will get away from him. Then again, I also think someone like Jolly is too smart for Minson and Hudson as well...so there you go.

I wish we had another developing ruck on our list. But I am OK with where we are right now. If you ask me about our key defensive options though I have a slightly more jaded view.

[Rocco Jones]

I am in the 'Always draft a ruckman' category. Every year. Just to see what might happen. But I am not too worried at the moment - and that is for two main reasons.

Agreed. You can always trade them if you have 'too many'. A rare specialist spot in modern footy.

[Go_Dogs]

Yes, I know Minson has been injured...which to me means he will be coming into his own at around about round 16 when Hudson traditionally collapses under the weight of workload for a couple of weeks and can use a rest in any case. Roughead needs gametime in any case - 10-12 games I hope during the year - and his is good enough to play 35 minutes a game.

Unless we can play 3 rucks (which I don't like at all) or Minson's injury is worse than we are led to believe, I don't think he'll see that much action. I don't want to sound like I'm anti-Roughead at all, I still think he can certainly play a role, but I would hate to see him having to ruck serious minutes over a long period of games. But who knows, he could surprise if thrown to the wolves.



I would be interested to hear your jaded views on our backline, and if it's to do with the strange senior listings of back up players who (seemingly) aren't going to play, then I'm even more interested.

[bornadog]

I wish we had another developing ruck on our list. But I am OK with where we are right now. If you ask me about our key defensive options though I have a slightly more jaded view.

How about Cordy, do you see him as a developing ruck, or as a developing KPP.

[mjp]

How about Cordy, do you see him as a developing ruck, or as a developing KPP.

Since I am in Perth these days and therefore never get to see him play, I have no real opinion except 'worried'. He should be getting close to playing senior footy this pre-season...he isn't. That is not good.

[mjp]

Unless we can play 3 rucks (which I don't like at all) or Minson's injury is worse than we are led to believe, I don't think he'll see that much action. I don't want to sound like I'm anti-Roughead at all, I still think he can certainly play a role, but I would hate to see him having to ruck serious minutes over a long period of games. But who knows, he could surprise if thrown to the wolves.

It is Roughead's second year and he needs to play. I want to see him play more than 6 games this year...reports on Minson have been pretty unclear and I would have thought he was miles off senior footy. It is not as if he is a definite, first choice player at this stage - Hudson is ahead of him in the ruck, he clearly is no more than a pinch hitting forward...I know he has a future and we need to stick with him, but I would not be shocked to see Roughead pass him by the end of 2011.

I would be interested to hear your jaded views on our backline, and if it's to do with the strange senior listings of back up players who (seemingly) aren't going to play, then I'm even more interested.

I didn't understand any part of our draft or rookie elevations...apart from the elevation of Picken and selection of Moles I have been completely baffled. No point going over old ground here, but does anyone actually think any one of Markovic, Mulligan or Boumann is ready to play? Does anyone really think Williams will get through the year?

To me a significant injury to either Lake or Morris is absolutely disastrous for us...I have no idea what we would do, what our plan might be to cover this. I guess it is Markovic - but he hasn't played this pre-season which you would have think would have made sense...I don't see any other options. It is not as if we can flip Chris Grant from Half-forward ==> Half-back in the twinkling of an eye...

All of that is for some other thread though so please don't let me railroad yet another one with negative rubbish.

[Mantis]

Since I am in Perth these days and therefore never get to see him play, I have no real opinion except 'worried'. He should be getting close to playing senior footy this pre-season...he isn't. That is not good.

With his body still maturing isn't it better that we are taking the slow & steady road?

When Ayce was drafted it was a well known fact that his skinny body would take a fair bit of conditioning to enable him to compete against men. We understand that he has put on somewhere between 15 to 18kg in this time, but the fact that he has also grown another 3cm means that his body can't be pushed too hard.

One would think that when the VFL season kicks off in another 5 weks time that Ayce will be ready to go and we hope that a solid year at this level will see him in a strong position to push towards the senior team in 2011, especially after another pre-season.

[Sedat]

It is Roughead's second year and he needs to play. I want to see him play more than 6 games this year...reports on Minson have been pretty unclear and I would have thought he was miles off senior footy. It is not as if he is a definite, first choice player at this stage - Hudson is ahead of him in the ruck, he clearly is no more than a pinch hitting forward...I know he has a future and we need to stick with him, but I would not be shocked to see Roughead pass him by the end of 2011.

Agree with your overall rationale that Roughead needs some senior AFL game time in 2010 but I think you are selling Minson's ruck work a little short. If he is behind Hudson, it is a marginal call - Hudson is an animal when it comes to 2nd and 3rd efforts after the stoppage but Minson is the more effective tap ruckman. I'd go as far to say that Hudson and Minson would be in the top 2-3 ruck combinations in the AFL over the last 2 seasons. The reality is that Hudson will retire before Minson even peaks as an AFL footballer.

[Mofra]

I am in the 'Always draft a ruckman' category. Every year. Just to see what might happen. But I am not too worried at the moment - and that is for two main reasons.
...

I wish we had another developing ruck on our list. But I am OK with where we are right now. If you ask me about our key defensive options though I have a slightly more jaded view.

Not sure I agree with always but it is definately good to have a number on our list. We took 2 last year & rookied Prato this year, and this is excluding Mulligan that looks set to be developed as a key defender.

[bornadog]

Colin Wisbey has given permission for this to be displayed

Jordan Roughead (North Ballarat Rebels)

200/92 mid-age right foot (has other foot if necessary) ruck

*STYLE LIKE: Charman

*MY RANKING (not meant to reflect appropriate draft pick to use): 13

*PROBABILITY OF AFL CAREER: Definite. Ready year 2.

- Within an AFL team list, could prove capable of SUSTAINING a ranking of 3-5.

*HURT FACTORS (Offensive/Defensive/Negative): M / LM / M

*TRADEMARK:

- Centre-bounce palm-out down the throat of a team-mate in a position to effect a clean disposal.

*MAIN SELLING POINTS:

- Ruck smarts, skills.
- Vision
- Leap
- Ethic
- Improvement trend / Scope for further improvement
- Decision-making / smarts

*MAIN QUERY:

- Kicking reliability (not a huge issue though).

*SUMMARY ASSESSMENT, RECOMMENDATION:

- 200cm ruck who only committed to footy fairly recently. An ex basketballer who actually plays an inside game yet brings to the table some useful basketball attributes and smarts. The most impressive ruck skills of any underage ruck in this draft.

- Quite good ethic, can take a grab, smart and usually makes right decisions, mobile (although lacks a little pace), quite good endurance.

- I don't get excited about Jim Stynes-type ruckwork (i.e. statistically win the hit-out but the ball drops at the ruckman's feet, to no-one's advantage). Roughead though is "definite AFL" purely for his frequency of silver service to his mids, at centre bounces especially, regardless of whatever else he brings to the table.

- If my club's main intention was to draft a ruck primarily for ability to do frequent hitouts to genuine advantage, Roughead would be my clear choice ... in a heartbeat. And that's despite my very high regard for 3 other rucks in this draft. And, given that hypothetical drafting priority, I'd use whatever pick was believed necessary to ensure I got my man.

- An encouraging bonus with Roughead is his improvement around the ground. His improvement trend in that aspect is very solid. Averaged only 9d in '07 but improved to 14d in '08. In his last 8 TAC games, he averaged 16d and his quietest game in terms of possessions was 13 (he also had 24d in one of those games). In his previous 16 TAC games, he only got *more* than 13d 4 times. 66% improvement on last year's average and 25% up on his average in the first 1/2 of '08. He's unlikely to have the elite follower ability of Cox but, given time, he will be a more than handy possession-gathering AFL ruck around the ground, perhaps regularly 15-20d a game.

Vickery is the Vic ruck we often associate with mobility and around the ground stuff but Roughead is not all that far behind. Vickery averaged 17d at TAC level and 11d in '08 Champs and Roughead 14d and 7d. In the 2nd half of both their '08 seasons, Vickery averaged a Cox-like 21d, Roughead 16d.

Roughead is no Paul Salmon but he's no duffer around goals either. He is not an "in the ruck or on the bench" type. He is quite capable of a good grab up forward (or a gather and snap). Kicked 11-5 in '08 following 8-2 in '07 and he continues to improve in that area.

RUCKWORK:

- Displays the most intelligent, skilled, mature, effective ruckwork I've seen in an U18 ruck for some time. He doesn't just ruck to a predictable formula as many rucks do. e.g. He varies his positioning and approach at centre bounces. (e.g. Sometimes cleverly pre-positions himself at CB just marginally his side of the line then immediately moves over the line as ball is bounced, allowing him to take "front posn" coming from side - sometimes from the left, sometimes from the right). His ability to tactically think through ruck contest gives him a major advantage over many opponents. A bigger bag of tricks and tactical smarts also means that if an opponent seems to have his measure with one approach, Roughead can seamlessly switch tactics without having to compromise his own capability. At the very least, he keeps the other ruck guessing.

- A ruck's tap-outs with hurt factor to a targeted team-mate are most potent at CB's and that's Roughhead's biggest differential strength compared to other rucks in this draft but he is also very efficient at non-CB ruck contests.

- Excellent awareness of where his teammates are.

- Very big leap and times it extremely well.

- His own clearance work is fairly good and he is now a ruck who sees his job at ruck contests as not over until the ball is cleared from the area. I really value that.

- Usually holds his ground but occasionally fails to (and the times I've noticed it fail, it's surprisingly usually been against a short, lighter ruck, not a giant).

- Most of his ruckwork against VM was against McKernan who he beat comfortably but he did also beat Vickery in their limited time in ruck together. On other occasions when they've met, Roughead has had the better of Vickery at CB and they've roughly broken at non-CB. Beat Naitanui "on points" in their contests and beat Redden also (Redden did some nice work himself but Roughead definitely won on the day).

*DISPOSAL:

- Kicking accuracy let him down a bit this year but he does some good kicks. He's certainly not an unco ruck who *has* to do 1m feeds instead of kicking.

- Very reliable by hand. In fairness, many of his feeds are little give-offs typical of a ruck, so I'm not suggesting he's the next Polly Farmer, but some do have good hurt factor and he does display quick hands.

*DECISION-MAKING, SMARTS:

- Decision-making / smarts, especially vision, are a major strength and perhaps his basketball background comes to the fore here. He thinks through situations very well, he almost routinely looks for options (and usually makes the right choice) and he often shows excellent vision. He does some really clever things and displays quick thinking.

*HANDS:

- Regularly clean. Not just ground balls but his aerial ball control is also very good, even under great pressure.

Ball control (as distinct from ground ball cleanness) is a fairly handy ability in a mid around the ground but inside stoppages is more than handy - it's a really productive attribute to have, given how often the ball is up in the air either from a ruckman's hit-out or from popping up from the hands of whoever gathers the spills. It's something I value in an inside mid but, in a ruckman, it's a gem. Roughead's very adept in this area.

*OVERHEAD MARKING:

- Not yet a feature but he sometimes takes a very good contested grab, either front or behind and usually under great pressure. Took a screamer mid-pack under great pressure against Eastern Ranges in R13 last year - hung in the air.

Usually judges well, attacks his marks. Hands usually good, even under the greatest of pressure..

*ATHLETICISM:

- His DC results were OK but he looked tired by the end of his '08 season so I wouldn't read anything negative into his "fair"endurance results. eg His DC beep was an "OK" 12-07 but he did almost a level better (13-03) at TAC pre-season testing. By comparison, Vickery constantly records beeps in the 11's and Naitanui's beeps have typically been in the 12's. Similarly, Roughead's normal on-field endurance is much better than his DC 3km of 12.23min might suggest.

- Very big leap.

- Pace is "slow midfielder" pace but acceptable for a quality ruck. (His quickest time at '08 DC flatters him a bit). Pace off the mark is sometimes sluggish, sometimes quite good. Very mobile though.

- Seems to be a late physical developer. Has grown about 5cm between early '07 and late '08 and also doesn't have the degree of body hair of some peers. Officially only grown 1cm since early '08 (and measurement diffs of just 1cm are meaningless) but might even still have a fraction more growth left?

- Fairly good at keeping his feet.

- Good reflexes.

- Defensive agility isn't always flash but is passable.

*INTENSITY, ETHIC:

- His intensity isn't uniform but it's generally pretty good. It let him down somewhat in '07 and his coach urged him in at least a couple of games to push back harder and show more intensity. He's still not quite there but has shown significant improvement this year.

Has most of the 1%ers covered. Chases (which some rucks don't). Attacks the spoil. Generally an effective tackler..

- Gets his own ball inside traffic.

- Very coachable. Intelligent kid. Asks questions. Keen to learn.. Team man.

*CONSISTENCY:

- Quite consistent, both game by game and within a game and in effort as well as output.

*AFL VERSATILITY:

- Specialist ruck but as a ruck resting productively in FP, not someone who has to be benched when resting.

*CSI (COMPARATIVE SCOPE for IMPROVEMENT):

- Although 2 full TAC seasons, is ex-basketballer and a country kid so CSI is a bit above normal.

*SOME STATS:

- Stats summary '08 TAC:
Averaged 14 disposals in 15 local games. 0.7 contested marks. 2.5 tackles. Total goals 11-5 .
10 kicks per 20 disposals.
Ineffective kicks: 4.3 per 10 kicks.
Ineff handballs: 1.2 per 10 handballs.
Ineffective disposals: 5.6 per 20 disp.
HandBall Receives: 4.3 per 20 disp. Uncontested marks: 6.0 per 20 disp. HR+UM: 10.3 per 20 disp.
Contested Marks: 1.0 per 20 disp.
At least: 20 disposals in 1 games.
- Mid-way trend ... % change in disposals was + 25%. % change in KI/10K was + 44%. % change in Ineff/20D was + 30%. % change in contested marks was -68%. % change in handball receives was + 49%. % change in tackles was + 68%.

- Stats summary '07 TAC:
Averaged 9 disposals in 18 TAC games. 0.4 contested marks. 1.7 tackles. Total goals 8-2 .
9 kicks per 20 disposals (ranking No.22 for lowest in comp).
Ineffective kicks: 2.7 per 10 kicks.
Ineff handballs: 2.6 per 10 handballs.
Ineffective disposals: 5.3 per 20 disp.
HandBall Receives: 4.1 per 20 disp. Uncontested marks: 4.1 per 20 disp. HR+UM: 8.2 per 20 disp.
Contested Marks: 1.0 per 20 disp.
- Mid-way trend ... % change in disposals was + 29%. % change in KI/10K was -20%. % change in Ineff/20D was -39%. % change in contested marks was + 67%. % change in handball receives was + 68%. % change in tackles was + 51%.

- Stats summary '08 U18 Champs:
Averaged 7 disposals and 3.0 marks in his 5 games. (Best TD 8). (Tot TOG 0%).
Averaged 8 kicks per 20 disposals.
Kicks long vs short: 2-4 (3 long per 10 kicks).
Ineffective kicks: 8/14 (5.7 per 10 kicks), incl 1 clangers (0.7 per 10 kicks).
Ineff handballs: 2/22 (0.9 per 10 handballs), incl 0 clangers (0.0/10 hb).
Ineffective disposals: 10/36 (5.6 per 20 disp), incl 1 clangers (0.6 per 20 disp).
HandBall Receives: 7/36 (3.9 per 20 disp). Uncontested marks: 11/36 (6.1 per 20 disp). HR+UM: 18/36 (10.0 per 20 disp).
Contested marks: 4 (2.2 per 20 disp).
Hardball gets: 3/36 (1.7 per 20 disp).
SP Clears: 5/36 (2.8 per 20 disp), incl 2 CBC (1.1/20 disp) and 1 other BU (0.6/20 disp).
Tackles: 7 (Avg 1.4 per game).
HO: (Tot - cb - oth b/u - t/i): 72-33-15-24, comprising 16-9-5-2 (vs VM) 12-5-4-3 (vs NSW) 14-4-0-10 (vs WA) 14-5-3-6 (vs SA) 16-10-3-3 (vs TAS)

*OTHER STUFF:

- Jarryd's cousin.
- Ex-basketballer.

Congratulations to Roughead on his first game for the Mighty Dogs

[chef]

Yep, Good luck Jordan and thanks for re-posting that GVGjr.

[bornadog]

Yep, Good luck Jordan and thanks for re-posting that GVGjr.

I thought I was Bornadog