19 Men On The Ground

[Sockeye Salmon]

Welsh too - obviously - but how is it that the saints interchange knew we had 19 on the ground and we didn't. Someone's not doing their job properly.

We knew, we just couldn't get him off before they bounced the ball.

[LostDoggy]

That was a major stuff up, we had worked really hard in the 3rd quarter and to hand them a goal on a silver platter was crap.
It did look like the saints had 19 on the ground in the second quarter.... or were we just bad?

[LostDoggy]

I noticed it about 15-20 seconds before the first bounce. There were only 2 players running to the bench, one was Murphy and I can't remember the other and of course Higgins was already off the ground. So I then thought 'oh no, who else is injured?' but I counted the ground and there were 19. Admittedly it's easier on level 3 to count the players out there then it is at the boundary line, but surely someone there could have noticed a touch quicker that there were only 2 on the bench and called for Cross on the wing to run off. I was surprised the emergency umpire took so long to call it, but it of course worked even more in their favour. It's such an unprofessional thing to do, there really aren't any excuses and in such an important game it just shouldn't happen.

[mjp]

Was it really a bigger mistake than the 100's of others made on the night? Was it really the 'turning point'?

Sure - it was disappointing. But given Eade is often speaking to the group whilst the assistants are still pulling players aside for extended chats, I am surprised it doesn't happen MORE often. It is simple to say he should have checked the match-up board, but if you are speaking to someone about what you are going to do, you then have every right to think you will be playing in that spot upon the resumption of play.

[The Coon Dog]

Was it really a bigger mistake than the 100's of others made on the night? Was it really the 'turning point'?

Sure - it was disappointing. But given Eade is often speaking to the group whilst the assistants are still pulling players aside for extended chats, I am surprised it doesn't happen MORE often. It is simple to say he should have checked the match-up board, but if you are speaking to someone about what you are going to do, you then have every right to think you will be playing in that spot upon the resumption of play.

Yeah, I reckon it was bigger, much bigger. Eade would have drummed into the players what he wanted them to do at the start of the last quarter & paramount would have been for us to kick the first goal, not serve it up on a platter for St.Kilda. Took the wind right out of our sails.

I think you're being very kind to the players mjp, very kind.

[AndrewP6]

I think given the massive penalty for what can be a miniscule infraction, that AFL clubs would be going to great lengths to tell players what they're doing in the quarter breaks, instead of relying on players checking the board...doesn't seem that hard to name four players starting each quarter on the bench. Wouldn't take long, and they could call them out with the whole group in attendance.

[soupman]

I think given the massive penalty for what can be a miniscule infraction, that AFL clubs would be going to great lengths to tell players what they're doing in the quarter breaks, instead of relying on players checking the board...doesn't seem that hard to name four players starting each quarter on the bench. Wouldn't take long, and they could call them out with the whole group in attendance.

I can't even recall it happening ever before, at any level of football.

It's simple, everyone looks at the board in order to determine where they are starting for the quarter. Even if Welsh was given instructions on how to play that position, he still should check out the board, which is held above the coaches head during the entire squad address. It is not hard to do, and it is a massive blunder.

I believe the penalty was just, it wasn't just someone running on a second too early, it was us having too many players on the ground. Had we won the clearance we would have had an extra player up forward, which believe it or not is a major advantage.

It was Welsh's fault, fair and square, not the coaches for not reading out the names, or anybody elses for that matter. I hope he had to do that "roll the dice" game we have for when people screw up (as in late for training).

[Twodogs]

Was it really a bigger mistake than the 100's of others made on the night? Was it really the 'turning point'?

Sure - it was disappointing. But given Eade is often speaking to the group whilst the assistants are still pulling players aside for extended chats, I am surprised it doesn't happen MORE often. It is simple to say he should have checked the match-up board, but if you are speaking to someone about what you are going to do, you then have every right to think you will be playing in that spot upon the resumption of play.

It wasnt the turning point but it was a very unproffesional thing to do. Like Coon Dog said Eade would have absolutely drummed home the importance of getting the first goal and to see it coughed up for such an avoidable act (not to mention plain dumb!) was mega frustrating.

We'd slogged our guts out for a quarter to get back in the contest and one act like that just wasted all that work because from then on the contest was over.

[Go_Dogs]

I noticed this from where I was sitting and it was very frustrating, it was plain to see that we had an extra number.

These things happen, but at this level it's unforgivable - it simply should not happen. Yes, Welsh should have read the board, but one of the hundreds of stewards sitting on the bench should have noticed it.

[AndrewP6]

I noticed this from where I was sitting and it was very frustrating, it was plain to see that we had an extra number.

These things happen, but at this level it's unforgivable - it simply should not happen. Yes, Welsh should have read the board, but one of the hundreds of stewards sitting on the bench should have noticed it.

Thank you...

[LostDoggy]

All I can say......The worst "Head in your hands" moment ever!!

[mjp]

Eade would have drummed into the players what he wanted them to do at the start of the last quarter & paramount would have been for us to kick the first goal, not serve it up on a platter for St.Kilda.

Do you really think he would have said this?

You have to be careful when saying things like this - the players might actually believe you. And St Kilda are just good enough to kick the first goal of ANY given quarter regardless...so then what do the players think? They are more likely to drop their heads after a goal if you have just finished telling them how important it is that they simply cannot allow it to happen.

We went from 3 goals down to 4 goals down...big deal. Lake then allowed Riewoldt an uncontested shot on goal (he missed luckily), Harbrow let Milne get goal-side (again) and conceded a goal...the last quarter was a series of poor footy decisions yet somehow an administrative one is the biggest problem we had? Give me a break.

Back to my original post, I dont understand why our assistants continue talking to individuals AFTER Eade has called the group together. Cameron in particular seems to have a license to do this. The board is held up behind Eade, yet the assistants are taking players off to the side and discussing things with them whilst the senior coach is addressing the group? And not looking at the board is the players fault?

Simplify. The higher the pressure, the simpler things have to be. Players have a lot to worry about - coaches always assume they 'know' the little things (like where they might be playing) because the coaches discussed it in the box before the break...and, well, the coaches know and isn't it obvious?

This mistake has been blown out of proportion because a player destined for the bench stayed on the field - I wonder how many times we end up with an extra man forward or back? Pretty often given the number of times I see players sprinting around the squared as the umpires are getting into position. You say I am being 'soft' on them? I say it isn't that easy to play the game and the less things are assumed the better off the playing group will be...4 match day coaches and no-one asks if the players all know what they are doing in the last quarter? No-one makes sure that they have checked the match-up board?

Sorry - no way am I putting this on the player.

[AndrewP6]

Do you really think he would have said this?

You have to be careful when saying things like this - the players might actually believe you. And St Kilda are just good enough to kick the first goal of ANY given quarter regardless...so then what do the players think? They are more likely to drop their heads after a goal if you have just finished telling them how important it is that they simply cannot allow it to happen.

We went from 3 goals down to 4 goals down...big deal. Lake then allowed Riewoldt an uncontested shot on goal (he missed luckily), Harbrow let Milne get goal-side (again) and conceded a goal...the last quarter was a series of poor footy decisions yet somehow an administrative one is the biggest problem we had? Give me a break.

Back to my original post, I dont understand why our assistants continue talking to individuals AFTER Eade has called the group together. Cameron in particular seems to have a license to do this. The board is held up behind Eade, yet the assistants are taking players off to the side and discussing things with them whilst the senior coach is addressing the group? And not looking at the board is the players fault?

Simplify. The higher the pressure, the simpler things have to be. Players have a lot to worry about - coaches always assume they 'know' the little things (like where they might be playing) because the coaches discussed it in the box before the break...and, well, the coaches know and isn't it obvious?

This mistake has been blown out of proportion because a player destined for the bench stayed on the field - I wonder how many times we end up with an extra man forward or back? Pretty often given the number of times I see players sprinting around the squared as the umpires are getting into position. You say I am being 'soft' on them? I say it isn't that easy to play the game and the less things are assumed the better off the playing group will be...4 match day coaches and no-one asks if the players all know what they are doing in the last quarter? No-one makes sure that they have checked the match-up board?

Sorry - no way am I putting this on the player.

Yeah...what he said!

[The Coon Dog]

I agree with most of your posts mjp, but not in this instance. Welsh is the culprit, but its nice to see you sticking up for him.

Obviously I don't have your coaching experience & hands on in the box on matchday & all that goes with it, but purely as a supporter & spectator what Welsh did was amateur hour & something you don't even see in under 10's.

[aker39]

Simplify. The higher the pressure, the simpler things have to be. Players have a lot to worry about - coaches always assume they 'know' the little things (like where they might be playing) because the coaches discussed it in the box before the break...and, well, the coaches know and isn't it obvious?

All the more reason for a player to make sure he checks the board.