The 'leaders'

[Mantis]

Having watched pretty much all of the games over the weekend (although the Bris v Carl game is an intoxicated blur) I marvelled at how the leaders of the winning teams rose to the occassion and helped guide their teams to victory.

Riewoldt, Brown, Scarlett, McLeod, etc all played cracking games and helped their teams achieve the result they required. But it wasn't just them each of these teams had players who would go beyond the call of duty to help them get the job done. Simon Black was hobbling around on one leg, but when Brisbane needed soemone to win a clearance you had to look no further than to see the Brisbane no.20 feeding the ball out.

Then I look at the performances of our leaders and I am left wondering what did they do help will us win a bloody important game?

Our leaders might be great around the club and set an awesome example for our young guys in how to approach life as a senior footballer, but for me that isn't enough. I want the leaders of my footy team to lead on the ground. I want them to kick the important goals, I want them to mix it up in the middle when things aren't going our way, I want them to set the example for the rest of the boys to follow.

I want our leaders to lead us to victory because that's what they are supposed to do, and frankly on Saturday I don't think they gave a yelp.

[Desipura]

Good post, thought the exact same thing on Sunday just did not put it to paper. Im sick of hearing Gia is great with the players off the field with his leadership. Johnno is a great mentor to the kids. Actions speak louder than words.

[bornadog]

The way Jonathan Brown inspired his team on Saturday night was fantastic and Roo showed by example how to take Collingwood apart.

Johnno has been really good this year but we need him to stand up this Friday night and lead the way. He has to kick the pressure goals, he has to work hard and show Hill, Higgins, Ward and other young players what is required at finals level.

As you say, Mantis, its the whole leadership group that has to lead on the field.

[bulldogtragic]

I think Aker is our closest thing to a leader at the moment. When it's crunch time he demands the ball and changes the game. Not enough like him and at best we have him for only 12 more months.

[LostDoggy]

Callan Ward is already more of a leader on the field than many of our official designated leaders. 'Leader' isn't a label, it is an action, and unless you inspire something to follow you (ie. the momentum of a team, for example), you are not a leader.

John Maxwell, in his book '21 irrefutable laws of leadership', has a law called "The Law of E.F.Hutton", based on a TV ad campaign (in the US) that ended with the motto: "When E.F. Hutton speaks, people listen." Maxwell's Law #5 says you can quickly tell who the real leader/influencer in a group is, because when this person speaks, everyone at the table listens, nods, and begins to express assent. In a footballing sense, this player commands respect at a game, and it ebbs and flows around him and his presence. Nick Riewoldt is classic E.F.Hutton -- every game he plays, the game revolves around him. Wayne Carey was like that. Michael Voss was like that.

Who at the Dogs are genuine leaders in that sense, instead of a committee of agreed peers dreamt up by some waffly leadership program? Johnno and Aker are the closest things we have to that, followed not by Gia or Bobby, but Lakey, Ward and maybe Higgins. Griff has the potential -- though apparently not the tank -- to be the great white hope though.

[The Doctor]

Mantis, I fully agree with your sentiments.

Our leaders and senior players have failed to deliver on the biggest stage. They may well be an excellent leadership group off the field but on it they have yet to prove it when the pressure is at its' greatest.

I also ask what are our coaching staff and managers doing about it? My concern as I posted in another thread is the same senior players making the same mistakes in big matches yet they seem to get off lightly, ie not demoted. The Saints have shown this year that hard decisions on club favorites like Hudgeton and Ball does not mean the team will necessarily suffer. In fact if anything it has made them a tougher more ferocious unit.

I want to see senior under performers dealt with. Especially repeat offenders and I care not for their reputation, supposed skill, or their off field leadership capability. To hell with that. I want 22 players on the field who will give everything and do anything to win. We are so close and are letting it slip. I want some asses kicked.

[LostDoggy]

Here's another quote from John Maxwell that I think is relevant to this discussion:

"Everything rises and falls on leadership."

[Cyberdoggie]

There isn't too many players that have that real mental toughness and calmness under pressure. Callan Ward has shown in junior footy and in the AFL that he has this in spades. He can pick the ball up steady himself from outside 50 and on most occasions you can rely on him to put it through the middle.

Not too many others players in our side have this at all.

Johnno: we have all seen what happens to him when the siren goes.

Higgins: The prelim last year and in the last 2 games he has missed vital goals, albeit some were very difficult but he tends to miss them when we desperately need him to kick one.

Gia: Not very reliable from set shots but pretty good in play. That tells me he gets the yips under pressure

Minson: Came up with the goods in that game we stole from Richmond last year but he often shanks set shots for goal, yet his field kicking is excellent. He set Johnno up with a brilliant pass against the cats

Griffen: Not very reliable at all, mostly because of his bizarre kicking action where he kicks across his body

Cooney: Has missed big set shots on vital occasions, another one on the weekend

Murphy: Terrible at set shots for goal. Rarely puts them in unless he starts well.

Aker: Usually pretty good. Hasn't been as accurate as i'd like him to be from his snaps at goal, probably needs to settle more but from set shots under pressure i would rely on him

Overall i don't think there is much mental toughness and leadership qualities in our forwards, perhaps we should give the captaincy to a backman or a dour midfielder like Boyd?

[Mantis]

Overall i don't think there is much mental toughness and leadership qualities in our forwards, perhaps we should give the captaincy to a backman or a dour midfielder like Boyd?

He is one of the player's I have the biggest problem with. For such a supposed hard arse around the club he turns into a powder puff in the big games.

I want him to play like he really means it, I want his attitude to be 'If you (the oppsoition)want to win you have to get through me'.

At present I don't see it.

[Sedat]

I want him to play like he really means it, I want his attitude to be 'If you (the oppsoition) want to win you have to get through me'.

I definitely see that attitude in guys like Ward and Picken, but the reality is that if we are looking to 1st and 2nd year players for acts of inspiration on the field of battle we are not going to be troubling the engravers any time soon. We have more 100+ game players in our senior team than just about every other club, yet we appear to be a rudderless mess when the heat ramps up in September. The fact that we held our ground and then came back reasonably hard against the Cats is largely immaterial - we failed to match their intent when it counted. Unlike the despair of last year's QF when we were blown out of the water, the galling thing this time around is that we are currently every bit as good as Geelong are (arguably better). They have several underdone and sore players, and they have a couple of on-field liabilities (Blake and Hawkins) in key areas of the ground. But when it came to the crunch, we were found to be short of the mental mark once again.

I'd go a step further than just leadership on the field of battle - what is the brand of football we stand for? What are our immeasurables? What are the key indicators that the playing group and MC have identified as non-negotiables? Why is it that Rocket has had to remind a number of senior players virtually every week what not to do and they continue to ignore these reminders, yet the likes of Dal Santo and Milne were dumped without any hesitation by Lyon last season for failing to adhere to St Kilda's non-negotiables? Why do we continue to cut so much slack for players if they are continuing to make the same fundamental errors? It's madness - of course they are going to get comfortable in the senior team because they are safe as houses, which will make them prone to repeat errors without punishment, and so the cycle continues.

It's not about just creating some sexy slogan like 'Bloods footy' or 'Saints footy' but there is a commitment to a style and methodology that transcends everything that successful playing groups do together. Geelong religiously adhere to their 'brand'. Sydney definitely did in their hey day. St Kilda have embraced something similar this season. Hawthorn definitely did likewise in 2008. What is ours? Are we that satisfied as a club to have won 3 H&A matches in a row to finish off the season? St Kilda just won 20 in a row and they attacked Collingwood like rabid dogs for the majority of Sunday's game. Geelong have won 18+ games a season for 3 seasons in a row. We're hi-fiving in self-congratulation after 3 in a row - big f'ing deal.

[Ozza]

There isn't too many players that have that real mental toughness and calmness under pressure. Callan Ward has shown in junior footy and in the AFL that he has this in spades. He can pick the ball up steady himself from outside 50 and on most occasions you can rely on him to put it through the middle.

Not too many others players in our side have this at all.

Johnno: we have all seen what happens to him when the siren goes.

Higgins: The prelim last year and in the last 2 games he has missed vital goals, albeit some were very difficult but he tends to miss them when we desperately need him to kick one.

Gia: Not very reliable from set shots but pretty good in play. That tells me he gets the yips under pressure

Minson: Came up with the goods in that game we stole from Richmond last year but he often shanks set shots for goal, yet his field kicking is excellent. He set Johnno up with a brilliant pass against the cats
Griffen: Not very reliable at all, mostly because of his bizarre kicking action where he kicks across his body

Cooney: Has missed big set shots on vital occasions, another one on the weekend

Murphy: Terrible at set shots for goal. Rarely puts them in unless he starts well.

Aker: Usually pretty good. Hasn't been as accurate as i'd like him to be from his snaps at goal, probably needs to settle more but from set shots under pressure i would rely on him

Overall i don't think there is much mental toughness and leadership qualities in our forwards, perhaps we should give the captaincy to a backman or a dour midfielder like Boyd?

I agree with most of your post - however with repsect to Gia and Minson's kicking at goal - Minson has kicked 15.3 (83%) this year (+1 on the full) and nearly all of his shots would be set shots - so I'd say he is extremely reliable over the journey.
And Gia has kicked 88.37 since 2006 - at over 70% - so I'd say his number stack up also.

For mine - Higgins and certainly Bob Murphy are the two that frustrate me with their kicking at goal. For blokes with that much talent and skill - they should finish better. Griffen also hardly ever kicks the 50 metre running goals - always misses to the right hand side.

[Mantis]

I definitely see that attitude in guys like Ward and Picken, but the reality is that if we are looking to 1st and 2nd year players for acts of inspiration on the field of battle we are not going to be troubling the engravers any time soon. We have more 100+ game players in our senior team than just about every other club, yet we appear to be a rudderless mess when the heat ramps up in September. The fact that we held our ground and then came back reasonably hard against the Cats is largely immaterial - we failed to match their intent when it counted. Unlike the despair of last year's QF when we were blown out of the water, the galling thing this time around is that we are currently every bit as good as Geelong are (arguably better). They have several underdone and sore players, and they have a couple of on-field liabilities (Blake and Hawkins) in key areas of the ground. But when it came to the crunch, we were found to be short of the mental mark once again.

I see those qualities in Sam Reid as well, that kid is a warrior who I saw single handlely carry Williamstown over the line in a game earlier in the season. It's a damn shame his body has failed this year, but he MUST be a regular player next year.

Agree that Geelong were absolutely ripe for the picking (I have made mention of this in other threads so no use going over old ground)

I'd go a step further than just leadership on the field of battle - what is the brand of football we stand for? What are our immeasurables? What are the key indicators that the playing group and MC have identified as non-negotiables? Why is it that Rocket has had to remind a number of senior players virtually every week what not to do and they continue to ignore these reminders, yet the likes of Dal Santo and Milne were dumped without any hesitation by Lyon last season for failing to adhere to St Kilda's non-negotiables? Why do we continue to cut so much slack for players if they are continuing to make the same fundamental errors? It's madness - of course they are going to get comfortable in the senior team because they are safe as houses, which will make them prone to repeat errors without punishment, and so the cycle continues.

It's not about just creating some sexy slogan like 'Bloods footy' or 'Saints footy' but there is a commitment to a style and methodology that transcends everything that successful playing groups do together. Geelong religiously adhere to their 'brand'. Sydney definitely did in their hey day. St Kilda have embraced something similar this season. Hawthorn definitely did likewise in 2008. What is ours? Are we that satisfied as a club to have won 3 H&A matches in a row to finish off the season? St Kilda just won 20 in a row and they attacked Collingwood like rabid dogs for the majority of Sunday's game. Geelong have won 18+ games a season for 3 seasons in a row. We're hi-fiving in self-congratulation after 3 in a row - big f'ing deal.

Agree with most of that.

There has been many a discussion over the years on this sort of stuff, the old 'We accept mediocrity', blah blah blah. I am not sure what it is, but there is some underlying problem within the club that is holding us back from the ultimate success.

I hope some bugger can work out what it is very quickly and damn well fix it because it is driving me nuts watching us get so close only to stuff it up for some reason or another.

We are so bloody close that we can almost touch it, I just hope that something clicks within the group over the next couple of weeks which takes us to a place we haven't been for nearly 50 years, a GF, once we are there anything is possible.

[Desipura]

There has been many a discussion over the years on this sort of stuff, the old 'We accept mediocrity', blah blah blah. I am not sure what it is, but there is some underlying problem within the club that is holding us back from the ultimate success.

I believe it has got to do with us always having the underdog tag. Even with all those wins last season everyone continued to say we will not win a GF without a key tall. Perhaps the players do not genuinely believe they can do it without one either?
I heard an interview with Murphy a few weeks back and they asked him about Barry Hall and his reply was along the lines of "he would definately help our forward line having that big key forward up there". The way he responded was like he knew we had a deficiency there and that we are doing the best we can with what we have, which is similar to what Rocket has said in the past.

That combined with our lack of success over 55 years, this has most probably placed a heavy burden on the current crop of players to break the drought.

[The Doctor]

Maybe we have too many talk the talk leaders?

Our off field reputation is perhaps the best in the league at the moment. A credit to the club and players. No doubt our leadership group does an excellent job in leading our younger players to be decent people.

But do they know how to lead our team to premiership success? Judging by their efforts in the last 2 finals I would have to say no. Whilst they are all good public speakers and say all sorts of intelligent things that is useless on a footy field.

At a function a while back Rocket suggested to me that our senior players are a really good bunch of blokes (ie nice guys). I suggested we need more hard men in the side. We still do. We need some mongrel muts and those prepared to push the limits on field. Aker had a go with his handstand and had Gia standing there hands on hips with a "thats not what we stand for" look on his face. Aker is one of the few we have that walks the walk as well as talks the talk. I want Aker style on field leadership more than Gia style.

If Murphy is using no tall forward as an excuse then that is a cop out. This from a senior player will have follow on effects among others. What about saying "we don't need one, what we got is good enough"?

Watching Geelong I saw senior players like Enright providing direction by signalling to players where to go or I'm here you stay there etc. He did this all game long as did others. Didn't see much of this from our seniors. In fact I saw some of senior blokes pointing at each other as if to blame.

Our club is closer to a premiership than perhaps it realises. When will the penny drop among our nice guy leaders? Which one of them is going to make a sacrifical act rather than act for a free? Which one of them is going to go in for the hard ball rather than slip over in the contest? Which one of them is going to gut run to provide a lead to give a team mate an option out of trouble. In premiership sides all the senior players do this all the time and the young ones follow because that is what is expected and anything less is not good enough.

[Desipura]

If Murphy is using no tall forward as an excuse then that is a cop out. This from a senior player will have follow on effects among others. What about saying "we don't need one, what we got is good enough"?

Exactly my sentiments........a top post by the way Doctor, loved the insight. I agree we are very close to a premiership, thats what frustrates me that we may waste a golden opportunity.