List-building has Dogs ready: Eade

[mjp]

I dont think it is as simple as all that. I know Moles was 'only' a rookie at Geelong, but all of a sudden he looks set to play round 1 for a team that finished top 4 each of the last two years. Clearly he needed to be moved on at the cattery...but is the improvement down purely to him or to the coaches?

If you say the coaches have something to do with success, then they also have something to do with failure. I for one am beginning to understand that players who I coach for more than 12-months who aren't improving is usually on my head, not theirs.

[mighty_west]

I dont think it is as simple as all that. I know Moles was 'only' a rookie at Geelong, but all of a sudden he looks set to play round 1 for a team that finished top 4 each of the last two years. Clearly he needed to be moved on at the cattery...but is the improvement down purely to him or to the coaches?

If you say the coaches have something to do with success, then they also have something to do with failure. I for one am beginning to understand that players who I coach for more than 12-months who aren't improving is usually on my head, not theirs.

Isn't the coach always the scapegoat? there always has to be someone to blame, someone to take the fall no matter the case though?

How much also falls on the recruitment team, if a player just simply isn't good enough?

Tim Callan is probably a really good example, he works his ass off, yet at Geelong, he just couldn't crack into their side, because they were just too good, they had too much depth as well, yet, Tim is easily too good for VFL footy, he seems to be one of those stuck in between.

As the Dogs start to become a very strong side, he again drops back a few notches, not for a lack of work, not for not been given every opportunity, just that he isn't quite good enough to be a regular 22 player, yet he'd most likely get a game on a consistamt basis at alot of other clubs.

There have seem to be alot of list clogger types over time, and do get games here and there, but just don't make the most of their opportunities, Skipper was given games in his 8 years, Wight also, Cam Faulkner, Keiren McGuiness etc etc.

All decent VFL players, yet just wearn't good enough to take that next step, and i don't think a coach should take any blame what so ever, just like yourself mjp, if you're doing a good job in making up a good side, and developing good players, the ones that fall away, i can't see why you should take the blame for those, if they have a bad attitude, or they simply are not good enough......

[GVGjr]

I just hate the terminology...not everything can be put into little boxes like this.

Same here. To me the term means that the club and or coach have poorly managed the playing list by having marginal players signing longer term contracts than their ability should suggest. It's not fair to label the player without the coach or list managers sharing some of the responsibility.

Blaming or lumping the player into group like that is just too convenient.

[mjp]

if they have a bad attitude, or they simply are not good enough......

But those two things are very different.

Bad attitude = WAY GONE. Unless of course there are external factors causing the problem that the club/coaches aren't on top of.

Not being good enough doesn't make you a list clogger though does it? That is the part I dont get - there are probably 12-15 guys on our list at the moment who aren't going to be good enough to have a footy career...they aren't list cloggers, they are just blokes doing their absolute best.

Like I said, I hate the terminology and what turns you from talented kid to list clogger? When does that happen?

[mighty_west]

But those two things are very different.

Bad attitude = WAY GONE. Unless of course there are external factors causing the problem that the club/coaches aren't on top of.

Not being good enough doesn't make you a list clogger though does it? That is the part I dont get - there are probably 12-15 guys on our list at the moment who aren't going to be good enough to have a footy career...they aren't list cloggers, they are just blokes doing their absolute best.

Like I said, I hate the terminology and what turns you from talented kid to list clogger? When does that happen?

Well, that bags the question, what exactly is a list clogger? Is it that player that is simply not developing for whatever reason, or a depth player that can play a role if required, but is not essential to a teams list?

When does it happen? i guess that has to be judged dependng on each individual player.

[FrediKanoute]

By Jennifer Witham
8:57 AM Thu 18 March, 2010

Western Bulldogs coach Rodney Eade says alleviating the club of "list cloggers" over the past five years has left him with a solid line up to take into the 2010 season.

Ouch........

[Sockeye Salmon]

But those two things are very different.

Bad attitude = WAY GONE. Unless of course there are external factors causing the problem that the club/coaches aren't on top of.

Not being good enough doesn't make you a list clogger though does it? That is the part I dont get - there are probably 12-15 guys on our list at the moment who aren't going to be good enough to have a footy career...they aren't list cloggers, they are just blokes doing their absolute best.

Like I said, I hate the terminology and what turns you from talented kid to list clogger? When does that happen?

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck, so call it a duck.

Tim Callan is a list clogger - no offense intended Tim, you just are.


There probably are a dozen players on our list who won't make it, the problem we have is at this stage is we don't know which 12. Over time we'll work out who they are and they will be moved on. The challange is identifying which guys have the capability to keep improving and which guys don't.

At 20 Cam Wight is a mobile tall with potential, at 24 he is a list clogger. He'd stopped improving short of the required level.

[FrediKanoute]

Is Tim Callan a list clogger?

Reading the rest of the article, it doesn't bode well for Tim Callan or Steve Tiller if game time is going to be put into guys like Roughhead, Grant, Jones, Wood etc

[mjp]

Tim Callan is a list clogger - no offense intended Tim, you just are.

Right now he is a valuable back up. He played finals last year...surely you dont become a so-called list clogger over christmas.

[chef]

Right now he is a valuable back up. He played finals last year...surely you dont become a so-called list clogger over christmas.

And if it wasn't for Harbrow's emergence, he would have played a lot more.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Right now he is a valuable back up. He played finals last year...surely you dont become a so-called list clogger over christmas.

Eade said we don't carry back up players.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Patrick Bowden was a classic list clogger

[mighty_west]

Eade said we don't carry back up players.

Well why did we recruit a few then? Markovic, Rose, Moles.

[GVGjr]

Well why did we recruit a few then? Markovic, Rose, Moles.

I mentioned it before but we were in a way trying to add some depth on the cheap.
The list clogging expression is just a convenient way of moving the blame from the list managers to the players and a lot of supporters can't look any deeper than that.
Manage the list better and there is simply no such thing.

[mighty_west]

I mentioned it before but we were in a way trying to add some depth on the cheap.
The list clogging expression is just a convenient way of moving the blame from the list managers to the players and a lot of supporters can't look any deeper than that.
Manage the list better and there is simply no such thing.

But if that was the case, and managing a team better, therefor having more depth in your club, there will only still be 22 positions avaliable in any case, therefor some of those players that can't fit into the best 22, may very well be very good players who would slot into any other side, such as Callan, he would walk straight into the Melbourne or Richmind teams, yet isn't quite good enough to crack it into the stronger teams as that best 22 player.

Another example is Sam Power, rated highly as a junior, taken pick 10 in the draft, was given alot of opportunities from Rocket & Dean Laidley at the Roo's where he was played more as a tagger, he also has an outstanding attutude.

Who should take the wrap for Sam, now that he is no longer in the system?

If he just isn't good enough, there is not much anyone can do, and in his case, it wasn't from a lack of opportunities or hard work on & off the track.