The Saints in trouble - very broad topic

[comrade]

You think Carlton don't respect Judd as a leader?
Did Swan, Didak and Shaw play up a few years back as they did not respect Buckley as a leader?
When players get on the drink, they don't say to themselves "let's not get too drunk and do stupid things as we respect our captain"
It can be a number of reasons why they play up
Too much time on their hands, school would give them something else to focus on
The way they have been brought up by their parents may be another contributing factor
They are put on a pedestal just because they can kick an oval ball, they think they are invincible and can do what they like in the real world.
To say they don't respect their leader, I believe is not true.

Considering Judd was a part of the Booze Cruise and was reportedly feeding Fev drinks prior to the Brownlow, maybe he doesn't deserve the respect of the players.

Riewoldt lied about not posing for the nude photo. Not a great role model for the young blokes.

There is a reason why these two clubs in particular have repeatedly been in the papers for all the wrong reasons and I believe it has to do with poor leadership.

Maybe the reason we've had nothing leak in the last 5 years is the fact we had a captain that was a good role model on and off the field. The players who didn't tow the line have been moved on pretty swiftly (O'Keefe and Boumann springs to mind).

[Desipura]

Considering Judd was a part of the Booze Cruise and was reportedly feeding Fev drinks prior to the Brownlow, maybe he doesn't deserve the respect of the players.

Riewoldt lied about not posing for the nude photo. Not a great role model for the young blokes.

There is a reason why these two clubs in particular have repeatedly been in the papers for all the wrong reasons and I believe it has to do with poor leadership.

Maybe the reason we've had nothing leak in the last 5 years is the fact we had a captain that was a good role model on and off the field. The players who didn't tow the line have been moved on pretty swiftly (O'Keefe and Boumann springs to mind).

Is J Brown a good leader? Albert Proud continues to play up and during their premiership years Pikey was in trouble on a number of occasions. Fev was at a BBQ with Browny on new years eve before he went out and got in trouble again.
I just don't think it is that simple, agree to disagree on this one.

[comrade]

Is J Brown a good leader? Albert Proud continues to play up and during their premiership years Pikey was in trouble on a number of occasions. Fev was at a BBQ with Browny on new years eve before he went out and got in trouble again.
I just don't think it is that simple, agree to disagree on this one.

Brown seems like a good leader on the field, hard to judge his off field leadership though. Albert Proud seems fairly troubled so its probably not fair (to Brown) to point out a player in isolation. Fev is a different kettle of fish and I don't think Brown can be judged on year's of ignorance from the Carlton leadership group.

What I'm referring to is repetitive, almost systematic behaviour from numerous players at St Kilda which points to a lack of leadership.

[Ghost Dog]

All journalism this time of year is tedious, so not sure why you are singling out this one particular article.
What did you expect Goddard to say? Of course he is going to stick up for his teamates in public.

That's my point. Niall doesn't give him a chance to say much at all. And he probably has some good things to say.

[Desipura]

Brown seems like a good leader on the field, hard to judge his off field leadership though. Albert Proud seems fairly troubled so its probably not fair (to Brown) to point out a player in isolation. Fev is a different kettle of fish and I don't think Brown can be judged on year's of ignorance from the Carlton leadership group.

What I'm referring to is repetitive, almost systematic behaviour from numerous players at St Kilda which points to a lack of leadership.

That's fair enough.

[Remi Moses]

What gets my goat is the back tracking,U turning and the absolute koo deh ta the blame game! It's not just a one off like some clubs problems it's constant and until they make an example by sacking the next digresser they're kidding themselves

[Twodogs]

You think Carlton don't respect Judd as a leader?

A little OT but why would anyone respect Judd for anything except his unbelievable football abilty? He was in the leadership group at WC during their troubles. Indeed he was the one who insisted that Cousins got up on the podium for photos with the cup before the rrst of the team.

He knew of Cousin's problems at the time. Half the football world did so I cant see how Juddy wouldnt have-he was the captain of the club.

He was pouring grog down Fev's throat at the Brownlow. He was on the booze cruise. He takes money for some feel good BS ambassador role that his teammates miss out on and constantly digresses on the field because there is one set of rules for him and one for the rest of the comp.

Chris Judd is not someone I'd go to war with.

[Twodogs]

Does anyone else think that the worst mistake St Kilda made was to get rid of Luke Ball? Ball strikes me as the sort of bloke who'd you'd listen to when he eyeballed you and told you to lift your game.


That is the sort of leadership they are desperatly missing. As good as Riewoldt is as far as he is concerned it's Nick first, team second and that's exactly the wrong type to have as captain.


The Saints remind me of the Australian cricket selectors and team. They havent even admitted they have a problem yet and are heading for death by a thousand cuts.

[LostDoggy]

Brown seems like a good leader on the field, hard to judge his off field leadership though. Albert Proud seems fairly troubled so its probably not fair (to Brown) to point out a player in isolation. Fev is a different kettle of fish and I don't think Brown can be judged on year's of ignorance from the Carlton leadership group.

What I'm referring to is repetitive, almost systematic behaviour from numerous players at St Kilda which points to a lack of leadership.

I agree with this and think if it keeps happening again and again its totally fine to question
the leadership, as you would in any business / corporation etc .. someone has to take responsibility sooner or later and its because Reiwoldt is so reluctant to do this that people get rubbed up the wrong way.

Just grow some (non shaved) balls ffs, and come out and say that what has been going on is not acceptable, and things are going to change. People would respect him for that. Blaming the schoolgirl and whoever else and never taking responsibility is just pissweak. It doesent matter if a particular incident is technically his 'fault' or not, he is the leader and needs to cop it sweet when shit happens on his watch. There are certain leaders (Johnson, Kirk, Harley) who as a young player you would never dream of whipping out a camera and taking a photo of their tackle, if you did you would probably be moved on before you could blink.

[Before I Die]

Does anyone else think that the worst mistake St Kilda made was to get rid of Luke Ball? Ball strikes me as the sort of bloke who'd you'd listen to when he eyeballed you and told you to lift your game.


That is the sort of leadership they are desperatly missing. As good as Riewoldt is as far as he is concerned it's Nick first, team second and that's exactly the wrong type to have as captain.


The Saints remind me of the Australian cricket selectors and team. They havent even admitted they have a problem yet and are heading for death by a thousand cuts.

I don't think it is about respect for Riewoldt, I think it is about club priorities. If your priority is purely on field success then all that matters is a player's football ability and how it fits into the team's game plan. A scenario which leads to the cutting of Ball and the recruitment of Lovett (or Fevola or Chick or....etc). Bad boys can be great footballers and also great captains and they can bring premiershio success. The examples are numerous, the best known being Carey and Cousins.

We are not scandal free, but we are close to it and I believe that is not just because of Johnno, but because of Smorgon, Rose, Eade and Clayton plus others. We don't recruit dickheads and if we do by mistake, we don't keep them. Has it cost us a premiership? Who knows, but I am extremely happy with, and proud of, our club's stance.

ps. I remember as a kid being disappointed when "Bones" McGhie was sacked for an indiscretion on an interstate trip only to be picked up by Richmond to play in a premiership team. Now I feel disappointed in him, proud of the Dogs stance, and disappointed that his subsequent sucess meant the bad behaviour was rewarded. I am also glad that my club is run by mature, socially responsible adults and not adults who behave like kids who would pay any price for fleeting success.

[Ghost Dog]

I agree with this and think if it keeps happening again and again its totally fine to question
the leadership, as you would in any business / corporation etc .. someone has to take responsibility sooner or later and its because Reiwoldt is so reluctant to do this that people get rubbed up the wrong way.

Just grow some (non shaved) balls ffs, and come out and say that what has been going on is not acceptable, and things are going to change. People would respect him for that. Blaming the schoolgirl and whoever else and never taking responsibility is just pissweak. It doesent matter if a particular incident is technically his 'fault' or not, he is the leader and needs to cop it sweet when shit happens on his watch. There are certain leaders (Johnson, Kirk, Harley) who as a young player you would never dream of whipping out a camera and taking a photo of their tackle, if you did you would probably be moved on before you could blink.

Great post

[Ghost Dog]

I don't think it is about respect for Riewoldt, I think it is about club priorities. If your priority is purely on field success then all that matters is a player's football ability and how it fits into the team's game plan. A scenario which leads to the cutting of Ball and the recruitment of Lovett (or Fevola or Chick or....etc). Bad boys can be great footballers and also great captains and they can bring premiershio success. The examples are numerous, the best known being Carey and Cousins.

We are not scandal free, but we are close to it and I believe that is not just because of Johnno, but because of Smorgon, Rose, Eade and Clayton plus others. We don't recruit dickheads and if we do by mistake, we don't keep them. Has it cost us a premiership? Who knows, but I am extremely happy with, and proud of, our club's stance.

True enough. Take a long term view. What happened to North in subsequent years? Eagles? Very awkward times as a result of off field woe. Mention ' Carey' or 'Cousins' now and the word 'premiership' is not the first one that springs to mind.

single cup aside, hard to measure the cost / benefit of having a 'loose radical' in your list when looking long term. ( success, premiership V legal fees, media impact, memberships, hush money, pissing other players off )

Dogs supporters salivate over the thought of a single premiership in an era of drought. But that's not enough.

Sustained top of the ladder performance over a number of years which refrlects recruiting, management and other complex factors that take hundereds of people years to build toward. One errant player can do incredible damage to a club in the era of media mania. You could get away with much more in the past than now. Twitter, youtube, forums, just snowballs.

Myself, sounds a bit fake or contrived, but it's not - I associate the club with Australian values, community and fighting spirit off and on the field. ( holds hand over heart: )
means much more to me than a premiership actually.

[Before I Die]

Take a long term view. What happened to North in subsequent years? Eagles? Very awkward times as a result of their respective club cultures. Mention ' Carey' or 'Cousins' now and the word 'premiership' is not the first one that springs to mind.

Hard to measure the cost / benefit of having a 'loose radical' in your list. ( success, premiership V legal fees, media impact, memberships, hush money, pissing other players off )

Dogs supporters salivate over the thought of a single premiership in an era of drought. But that's not enough.

Sustained top of the ladder performance over a number of years which refrlects recruiting, management and other complex factors that take hundereds of people years to build toward. One errant player can do incredible damage to a club in the era of media mania. You could get away with much more in the past than now. Twitter, youtube, forums, just snowballs.

Myself, sounds a bit fake or contrived, but it's not - I associate the club with Australian values, community and fighting spirit off and on the field. ( holds hand over heart: )
means much more to me than a premiership actually.

You and me alike, though we will possibly get shouted down (this is the reason I don't post on the other footy site). Though I crave success for our club, I don't want it at any price.

Now back to the Aints. I suspect that Lyon sees his players as no more than chess pieces on a playing board. He is arrogant, a workaholic and fixated on the ultimate prize. In some ways I am amazed he worked so well with Roos who seems to be very concerned for the welfare of his players. If the Aints start to slide, I think there may be some very nasty fallout to follow.

[bornadog]

You gotta laugh

Nick Riewoldt apologises to woman after obscene words, gestures

A WOMAN says St Kilda captain Nick Riewoldt told her to "f--- off" after she took a picture of the team at a beachside restaurant, in the latest bad behaviour claims to emerge about the team.

But Mary, who aired the allegations on Derryn Hinch’s show on Radio 3AW this afternoon, claims her treatment by the club and by player manager Ricky Nixon made her far angrier than the initial incident.

“Mary” told Hinch this afternoon “all the players were there” at St Kilda’s Stokehouse in the daytime gathering the day after the team failed at last year’s AFL Premiership Grand Final against Collingwood.

Continued Here

[Topdog]

LOL, bornadog you have linked to the "quote post" button somehow.