The Saints in trouble - very broad topic

[Before I Die]

Jeez. Imagine being her father or mother? You would be so embarrassed. What a brat.
One thing for sure. The AFL have set a dangerous precendent by paying her off, as I imagine they have.
Get knocked up by a player and you're set. That is how it looks from the outside.

There are so many things wrong with this post, but I am not sure if an AFL discussion board is the right place to pursue them.

However,

If someone is 'knocked up' by an AFL player then they deserve all the financial support that they have the legal right to plus anything additional that the other party is willing to pay..

If the AFL are paying extra hush money in this case, then it is because they have something they want to keep hushed up.

I would be much more embarrassed if I was Sam Gilbert's parent.

She is clearly not real sharp and of questionable morales, but she is also only 17 and no-one held the St. Kilda boys down.

It would seem that groupies are seen as the spoils of fame at St. Kilda and nobody has been considering the questions of ethical, moral or legal responsibility.

Unless one is a porn actor or nude model, being photgraphed with your pants down is never a good idea.

Notwithstanding any of the above, if she is guilty of breaking any law she should be punished

[Ghost Dog]

The really embarrassing thing being mentioned previous post is that she stole, uploaded the images against her parent's advice.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-new...225-197k5.html

If she was wronged in any way by an AFL player then of course, she is entitled to be protected. I read the AFL has met her more than 20 times to sort it out the previous issue of her being made pregnant. Players involved really need to take a good hard look. of course, familes must be very red faced.

But re dikileaks ( not previous issue ) This kids' parents must be livid to have to be dragged into this despite warning her of the dangers.

Being 17 is no excuse re stealing anything. She broke the law. So it goes.

Throw in facebook, twitter and email -t he whole picture just became alot more complext for clubs and the AFL.

Anyway, label this thread the Morass of Moorabbin!

[Remi Moses]

I've said it once and I'll say it again .
Footballers hanging out with teenage girls are asking for trouble.
Not for one moment condoning what she's done but the players should not be mixing socially with school girls

[Remi Moses]

Jeez. Imagine being her father or mother? You would be so embarrassed. What a brat.
One thing for sure.
Get knocked up by a player and you're set. That is how it looks from the outside.

Very simplistic view. Yes she's an idiot and Yes family and friends would be embarrassed.
Having said that she's still a teenager,also footballers have been educated on the pitfalls that come with sudden stardom.Both parties could be accused of being completely stupid!

[LostDoggy]

I've said it once and I'll say it again .
Footballers hanging out with teenage girls are asking for trouble.
Not for one moment condoning what she's done but the players should not be mixing socially with school girls

And they shouldn't be having their photo taken with their bits hanging out either! They are supposedly grown men who have been given lots of advice about this sort of thing.

[Ghost Dog]

I would be much more embarrassed if I was Sam Gilbert's parent.

Would you? Maybe not. Depends on what really happened.

Interesting view from a St Kilda posting below and it could just as easily actually be like this. She initially claimed she was 19 and studied at the AIS.
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The surprising thing to me is that because he is a footballer it is assumed that some how he is beyond emotion and is infinitely more mature than other early 20s males.

The story could easily be seen from his point of view as- meets an attractive young lady. Dates said young lady only to have mates point out that she is also on with other guys.

All of a sudden she is pregnant as you go to break off the relationship. She claims to know its yours and no one elses.

She claims to have miscarried while you hear reports she is continuing to sleep with other guys. All of a sudden it's twins and she seems to be stalking you at work.

You later find she has posted pictures you had on your computer showing your mates being dickheads on a footy trip. Your mates all think your the worlds greatest prick.

You are humiliated in front of your mates and the whole uni/ workplace. whatever.

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Everyone is assuming S. Gilbert to be in the wrong. He may be but he may not. He has not broken any laws.

If St Kilda are smart they will offer her counselling. Looks better than ganging up on her in the courtroom. May even help her.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Would you? Maybe not. Depends on what really happened.

Interesting view from a St Kilda posting below and it could just as easily actually be like this. She initially claimed she was 19 and studied at the AIS.
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The surprising thing to me is that because he is a footballer it is assumed that some how he is beyond emotion and is infinitely more mature than other early 20s males.

The story could easily be seen from his point of view as- meets an attractive young lady. Dates said young lady only to have mates point out that she is also on with other guys.

All of a sudden she is pregnant as you go to break off the relationship. She claims to know its yours and no one elses.

She claims to have miscarried while you hear reports she is continuing to sleep with other guys. All of a sudden it's twins and she seems to be stalking you at work.

You later find she has posted pictures you had on your computer showing your mates being dickheads on a footy trip. Your mates all think your the worlds greatest prick.

You are humiliated in front of your mates and the whole uni/ workplace. whatever.

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Everyone is assuming S. Gilbert to be in the wrong. He may be but he may not. He has not broken any laws.

If St Kilda are smart they will offer her counselling. Looks better than ganging up on her in the courtroom. May even help her.

How did she know the pictures were on his computer?

[LostDoggy]

And they shouldn't be having their photo taken with their bits hanging out either! They are supposedly grown men who have been given lots of advice about this sort of thing.

I've played in numerous sports teams with the blokiest of blokes, gone on numerous co-ed international sporting trips/tours, and lived in a sports-institute boarding school environment during my teenage years, yet never needed any official 'advice' to resist the urge to put my bits out and model them for my mates to photograph, as I'm sure many others on this board will agree.

I also have to say that I've never really known a lot of serious sportspeople in other sports who enjoyed sleeping around with any willing drunken slut, despite the excuses and rationalisation of officials and authority figures in the AFL who like to make out that it's only natural that young men have disgraceful moral compasses (Sheahan, McGuire, footy show yobs etc.).

There seems to be something very wrong with a lot of AFL footballers, and AFL culture in general. Taken together with the numerous incidents in the NRL, there is something very wrong with celebrity footballing culture in Australia, along with the NBA and NFL in the US, and the EPL in England. You don't hear of Federer or Nadal, Spanish/German soccer players etc. getting into this kind of crap. Golfers were exempt too, I guess, until Tiger.

ps. Also, there just seems to be a lot of latent homoeroticism going around in AFL circles.. maybe Aker knew more than he let on.

[Maddog37]

It is only the celebrity set, sport stars included, that get the groupie type follower which makes sex etc much easier to obtain than it is for the regular joe.

If it is thrown at you all the time it would surely be harder to stay out of trouble.

I am not condoning this weird photo issue or the whole shag who ever you want culture but it must be factored in. 21 years old, lots of disposable income, not enough education as you focussed on sport from ayoung age, girls throwing themselves at you, free drink cards, celebrating a win etc etc. A perfect recipe for trouble imo.

[LostDoggy]

It is only the celebrity set, sport stars included, that get the groupie type follower which makes sex etc much easier to obtain than it is for the regular joe.

If it is thrown at you all the time it would surely be harder to stay out of trouble.

I am not condoning this weird photo issue or the whole shag who ever you want culture but it must be factored in. 21 years old, lots of disposable income, not enough education as you focussed on sport from ayoung age, girls throwing themselves at you, free drink cards, celebrating a win etc etc. A perfect recipe for trouble imo.

But this is precisely the argument that doesn't wash -- lots of people have plenty of opportunities in the 21st century for casual sex, but just as many people stay out of trouble and don't engage in stupid behaviour, including PLENTY of sportspeople, including most of your elite international stars (usually not American, unfortunately, and I guess our sports culture is becoming more and more US-centric). Even so, plenty of the more professional team cultures would not accept this type of behaviour, even in traditionally bad boy sports, and these are the teams that, if successful, are remembered as good guys and respected decades later. For example, and pardon the name-dropping, but I'm hanging out with my wife's family in Albacete in Spain, in a region that Andres Iniesta (the guy who scored the winner in the World Cup final for Spain) is from and my wife's family know his family, so we went down and hung out at his house yesterday (he's home for the Christmas holidays), and the guy (and 99% of the Barcelona team) are total family guys, completely down-to-earth, ethical etc., and their incomes (including endorsements) make Gary Ablett's salary look like peanuts, and live in international party towns like Barcelona, yet he lives in a humble house and are total professionals and nice guys with a zero dickhead policy who don't stay out late and get drunk and end up in the papers. And Iniesta has had a Barcelona contract since he was 12 so he has been sports focused from as young as any AFL footballer.

The other thing that is weird isn't just the casual sex, which is one thing and easier to understand, but the bizarre homoerotic, group sex, stupid risky behaviour vibe. It's surely taking the team thing to the extreme, and is NOT particularly ethical or normal even if you are a celebrity.

And having hung around the music and sports industries for decades, I've seen the range of groupies available, and even at the elite level they are usually pretty desperate, low-brain-cell-count types, and they only get worse down the food-chain, and believe me, groupies for a largely regional sport like footy that throw themselves at quasi-local celebrities are a pretty pathetic lot, and I don't understand the appeal for 21 year old footballers who have their whole lives ahead of them and could do a lot better (and Riewoldt isn't 21).

We have to stop making excuses for these dickheads and call their behaviour for what it is. The more excuses you make for them the more they'll just keep doing it.

Anyway.

By the way, HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!! (it's 12:40 am here in Spain, and I just got back in from the town square)..

[LostDoggy]

Couple of very good posts Lantern. The club blaming the young girl is just a bad look and
a really undignified way to handle the situation. Reiwoldt may have had nothing to do
with her but still as captain he needs to accept some responsibility for what has been going
on right under his nose , coming out and blaming a 16 /17 year old girl is pathetic. The
players involved would have been at least 7 years older than her even if they are still in their early twenties.

[Murphy'sLore]

The thing that is most disturbing is that there seems to be this kind of culture that encourages (explictly or implicitly) male team bonding via the bodies of young women/girls, whether it's group sex or boasting about pick ups or sharing round photos of models in the shower or whatever, and that is not very healthy.

And as Lantern says, it's not necessary either!

[The Coon Dog]

The thing that is most disturbing is that there seems to be this kind of culture that encourages (explictly or implicitly) male team bonding via the bodies of young women/girls, whether it's group sex or boasting about pick ups or sharing round photos of models in the shower or whatever, and that is not very healthy.

And as Lantern says, it's not necessary either!

Agree 100%. How would said players feel if the girl being boasted about or shown to all was their sister?

[Scraggers]

Everyone is assuming S. Gilbert to be in the wrong. He may be but he may not. He has not broken any laws.

If the players who did have relations with this girl originally met her at a school footy clinic (as her school Principal reported to the Police) then they have indeed broken the law.

[Before I Die]

Agree 100%. How would said players feel if the girl being boasted about or shown to all was their sister?

Apparently if you are a new player to the club and the girl is the girl friend of a player from another club (and ex-girlfriend of a St Kilda player), then they are not very happy.

ps this post is not taking sides in the Lovett case, just an observation.