Liam Jones in 2011 - realistic expectations?

[LostDoggy]

In terms of whether we can fit Hall, Grant, Jones and occasionally a resting ruckmen in our front half all at once I think it depends on a couple of other factors.
.

Whenever we discuss this possibility we tend to look at it this as being a central plank of he game plan. I don't think this is realistic.

But, to use this as an option to upset the opposition by finding themselves either too short or too tall when we pull a couple back to the bench gives us some real flexibility.

it is a ploy we can use as the occasion fits and for as long as we deem it worthwhile. I can see opposition coaches getting a headache trying to keep up with it.

[alwaysadog]

Whenever we discuss this possibility we tend to look at it this as being a central plank of he game plan. I don't think this is realistic.

But, to use this as an option to upset the opposition by finding themselves either too short or too tall when we pull a couple back to the bench gives us some real flexibility.

it is a ploy we can use as the occasion fits and for as long as we deem it worthwhile. I can see opposition coaches getting a headache trying to keep up with it.

There are a lot of positives to ponder in what you suggest EJ, certainly we never structure up in a consistent way. Rocket's mantra of never being predictable fits your suggestion.

In the immediate past we have more often witnessed us alternating with a small structure and even playing Cooney at FF, just to try and confuse the opposition by creating match up problems. To the best of my recollection we have never been able, in recent times at least, to exploit the opposite configuration.

While it sounds an interesting concept to explore, and even better to be contemplating the possibility, the 3+1 interchange bench may not allow it to become a possibliity.

The issue for me is the impact the tall forward structure would have in 2011 at least, when rotations are going to be limited (for implausible reasons) and carrying so much tall timber might dramatically limit the midfield rotations.

[Mantis]

The issue for me is the impact the tall forward structure would have in 2011 at least, when rotations are going to be limited (for implausible reasons) and carrying so much tall timber might dramatically limit the midfield rotations.

But with our team having so many mid sized players that can take there turn through the middle we might find that we see a return to the 'old days' when players rotate positions on the ground rather than heading to the bench. ie Gia & Cooney change between FP and on-ball, etc... If we go down this path, which I hope we do, it will allow us to play a taller team which I believe will increase our chances of improving as a team.

[GVGjr]

But with our team having so many mid sized players that can take there turn through the middle we might find that we see a return to the 'old days' when players rotate positions on the ground rather than heading to the bench. ie Gia & Cooney change between FP and on-ball, etc... If we go down this path, which I hope we do, it will allow us to play a taller team which I believe will increase our chances of improving as a team.

If this is the right approach, and I think it has some merit, we could have used it more frequently last season regardless of the IC rules.
I think the problem for us going taller is that it limits our scoring ability. We all acknowledge that Hall was invaluable last season but despite his goal kicking prowess we kicked less goals than the previous season. Was this because we were too tall, or because we had too many passengers or because of the loss of Johnson and Akermanis (insert a number of other possible reasons) I'm not really sure but normally what works for us is a smaller forward set-up.

I've never seen the value in someone kicking a goal then immediately sprinting to the bench for a couple of minutes only to again return but how we manage this will be critical to our successes in 2011.

For Jones, I do think it will be a struggle for him to have Hall, Grant, a resting ruckman and possibly Murphy in the forward line and still get enough playing time. It's also one of the reasons why I think Jones could be given a shot as a key defender during the NAB cup.

It's would be very interesting to know how Eade sees the side looking for round one and how Jones is likely to be used.

[alwaysadog]

But with our team having so many mid sized players that can take there turn through the middle we might find that we see a return to the 'old days' when players rotate positions on the ground rather than heading to the bench. ie Gia & Cooney change between FP and on-ball, etc... If we go down this path, which I hope we do, it will allow us to play a taller team which I believe will increase our chances of improving as a team.

It's certainly a point for consideration Mantis, and it's a nice position to be in because baring injuries we have an unprecedented flexibility to contemplate, no doubt our physical conditioning people who know a lot more about rest and recovery are working on it.

While I appreciate your pov I wonder if players are out of the game as much these days as they used to be when positions were much less fluid. It's not uncommon to see 30+ of the players involved even when the ball is at one end of the ground.

Maybe it means that fewer players will be invited to play in bursts ie go flat out for a period knowing they will be rested or maybe the conditioning will have to change.

[Mofra]

For Jones, I do think it will be a struggle for him to have Hall, Grant, a resting ruckman and possibly Murphy in the forward line and still get enough playing time. It's also one of the reasons why I think Jones could be given a shot as a key defender during the NAB cup.

I'm not sure Grant would come into considerations in making us too top heavy - his pace is a massive weapon and if he was exactly the same player at 188cm it wouldn't effect the structure at all. I also expect Murphy to play as a full time backman this year, as we now finally have enough leading & marking power in the front half to afford this luxury (and Shaggy/Gilbee's slowdown mean we need to compensate for the rebound somehow).

The rub is if Hall, Jones and a resting ruckman will all play in the forward half at the same time - that we wont know until the season proper starts.

[Go_Dogs]

It's would be very interesting to know how Eade sees the side looking for round one and how Jones is likely to be used.

I've been thinking about this quite a bit, and for mine there are still about 5 positions up for grabs for Rd 1. Something like:

Morris, Lake, Wood
Gilbee, Williams, Murphy
Picken, Boyd, Ward
Higgins, Grant, ______
____, Hall, _______
Hudson, Griffen, Cooney
Cross, Gia, ______
________


One spot needs to be filled be someone who can take some of the ruck duties.
One spot needs to be filled by a small, crumbing forward - still not sure we have this player on our list, but someone is going to need to do it, and do the defensive job too. Speed is crucial. (Stack, DJ?)
I would like to see a medium sized marking target in the forward line too, but one who can also do the defensive role and even rotate further up the field too if need be. Hill is one who springs to mind but needs to have improved intensity and defensive efforts, and get his fitness up so he can run further up field.
I'd like to squeeze Addison in too, because I liked how he finished the year and adds some versatility in that he could play back, midfield or forwards (which I'd like trialled more too).

Whether Jones can fit in, I guess will depend on injuries etc, however if he could add the key defensive string to his bow, it certainly gives him a better chance of getting more game time.

My thoughts are with Cross and Gia on the bench that a Cooney, Griff, Boyd, Ward and Picken centre square is a more dangerous starting position. Picken and Ward will throw themselves in like mad men, Boyd can snaffle a clearance or create space, and Griffen and Cooney can do their thing.


Anyway, now that I've derailed the Jones thread...I'll move on.

[GVGjr]

I'm not sure Grant would come into considerations in making us too top heavy - his pace is a massive weapon and if he was exactly the same player at 188cm it wouldn't effect the structure at all. I also expect Murphy to play as a full time backman this year, as we now finally have enough leading & marking power in the front half to afford this luxury (and Shaggy/Gilbee's slowdown mean we need to compensate for the rebound somehow).

The rub is if Hall, Jones and a resting ruckman will all play in the forward half at the same time - that we wont know until the season proper starts.

I understand that Grant isn't a true KPP and I have him more as a Bob Murphy type who provides some match-up issues for the opposition but where I'm coming from is even allowing for Grants pace he isn't a genuine crumber and it does take another mid/tall position out of the equation. If we are intending to use Minson or Roughead in the forward line for decent periods then it becomes a challenge for Jones to get a lot of minutes.

My feel is that we shouldn't play the rucks in the forward line which would open up a position for Jones.

[Ghost Dog]

I understand that Grant isn't a true KPP and I have him more as a Bob Murphy type who provides some match-up issues for the opposition but where I'm coming from is even allowing for Grants pace he isn't a genuine crumber and it does take another mid/tall position out of the equation. If we are intending to use Minson or Roughead in the forward line for decent periods then it becomes a challenge for Jones to get a lot of minutes.

My feel is that we shouldn't play the rucks in the forward line which would open up a position for Jones.

So who are the crumbers in our current list? Vezpremi, Djerukka? Hooper, any others?

would be gutted if Grant didn't get an endorsment of serious playing time in 2011 on the back of his effort last year. his ability to chase down and pressure inside 50 is a huge bonus that crumbers in our current list ( Vezpremi , Hoops for example ) will have a hard time matching.

[GVGjr]

would be gutted if Grant didn't get an endorsment of serious playing time in 2011 on the back of his effort last year. his ability to chase down and pressure inside 50 is a huge bonus that crumbers in our current list ( Vezpremi , Hoops for example ) will have a hard time matching.

Based on last season I can't see why he wouldn't play every game except for injuries.

[chef]

So who are the crumbers in our current list? Vezpremi, Djerukka? Hooper, any others?

would be gutted if Grant didn't get an endorsment of serious playing time in 2011 on the back of his effort last year. his ability to chase down and pressure inside 50 is a huge bonus that crumbers in our current list ( Vezpremi , Hoops for example ) will have a hard time matching.

I don't think Hooper or DJ are crumbers.

Does anyone know if Dahlhaus has been playing as a forward pocket in the practice games?

If Grant shows the same application as last year he will easily play ever game(plus he will also be a better player with another preseason under his belt).

[Ghost Dog]

Ok I see. Besides Dhaus, who would you have?
The video of him posted through here a few weeks back was great. Speedster. Very much looking forward to the start of the season.

Back on the topic of Liam Jones, how many games did he play in 2010 again? Can't remember. was only 1 or 2 i think

[ledge]

I was impressed with Jones when him and Hall clashed going for the same mark.. means he isnt afraid to go for it when he has the chance and also has hunger..
Wou;ld certainly look at him as a major forward, FF or CHF.. just who has Eade got his eye on becoming FF after Hall retires?
If Bazza has another good year I wouldnt be surprised if the club tried to talk him into another year.

[GVGjr]

Back on the topic of Liam Jones, how many games did he play in 2010 again? Can't remember. was only 1 or 2 i think

5 games. Kicked 6 goals.

[Desipura]

Jones is a very good overhead mark and has that instinct of a natural forward very rare to find a tall forward who is good overhead and chases. We have Lake at the other end who is a proven good mark. Playing Jones down back will somewhat take away that strength to his game as they will get in the way of each other.