Liam Jones in 2011 - realistic expectations?

[Mofra]

I actually don't see Grant as a tall, his style of play is different from that of many tall players.

Agree, he was our best crumber for much of 2010, has pure pace and does work defensively so he certainly isn't one that would make us top-heavy.

[Go_Dogs]

Agree, he was our best crumber for much of 2010, has pure pace and does work defensively so he certainly isn't one that would make us top-heavy.

Can't disagree with that assessment, but I think Grant will still be a "key position player", similar to Murph and Johnno who both essentially played as key forwards even though they were short of stature.

At the end of the day, it's not the size of the player, but the role they'll be asked to play as to whether or not they'll all be able to fit into our structure. I think Grant may be asked to play that lead up role, which may allow us to play 2 taller blokes deeper, and a crumber. I guess the question then becomes how much diversity to we want up forward - do we go with a Hall/Jones/DJ combo, or something more like Hall/J Hill/DJ or even Skinner in place of Hill if he can get himself right and play as that 3rd forward?

Plenty of options available, finding the best mix to give us goal scoring targets, crumbing options, speed and defensive pressure etc will be crucial.

[Mofra]

At the end of the day, it's not the size of the player, but the role they'll be asked to play as to whether or not they'll all be able to fit into our structure. I think Grant may be asked to play that lead up role, which may allow us to play 2 taller blokes deeper, and a crumber. I guess the question then becomes how much diversity to we want up forward - do we go with a Hall/Jones/DJ combo, or something more like Hall/J Hill/DJ or even Skinner in place of Hill if he can get himself right and play as that 3rd forward?

Even if he does play as a KPP this year or later, I still don't believe he is one of the players that would make us too "top heavy" - arguably, I would put Liam Jones in that category either. They are both quick & apply defensive pressure. Hahn makes us more top heavy than either of those two.

[Mantis]

I see him as becoming a permanent member of our team, but in my way of thinking it could come down to how we go about using the 2nd ruck spot.

If we play 2 rucks it will become a juggling act to if we can fit all of Jones, Hudson, Hall and one of Minson or Roughead into the same team. With just 3 interchange players we probably won't be able to have more than 1 of these players on the bench at any one time which will make it hard.

As others have pointed out if we can give Jones some time in defence thru the pre-season his position might become more assured because if he shows promise he can be used in defence for short periods when Williams & Lake are resting.

As others have mentioned his fitness needs to improve (which it is), as does his field kicking, but his raw tools give us a great platform to build a very good player from. Really like his courage in the air and his work ethic (2nd efforts, chasing, etc..)

[mjp]

I see him as becoming a permanent member of our team, but in my way of thinking it could come down to how we go about using the 2nd ruck spot.

If we play 2 rucks it will become a juggling act to if we can fit all of Jones, Hudson, Hall and one of Minson or Roughead into the same team. With just 3 interchange players we probably won't be able to have more than 1 of these players on the bench at any one time which will make it hard.

That was my point before - we wont risk going in with one ruckman, therefore for a lot of the time you will have Hall plus Roughead or Minson up forward. Plus Grant. I don't see how we could play Hall, Jones and Roughead/Minson in the same forward line and be effective.

Given that, one has to miss out. It wont be Hall. And we have to play two ruckman, so it wont be Roughead/Minson.

[Mantis]

That was my point before - we wont risk going in with one ruckman, therefore for a lot of the time you will have Hall plus Roughead or Minson up forward. Plus Grant. I don't see how we could play Hall, Jones and Roughead/Minson in the same forward line and be effective.

Given that, one has to miss out. It wont be Hall. And we have to play two ruckman, so it wont be Roughead/Minson.

Yep.... I probably should have just quoted your OP rather than writing it out again.

I guess it may also come down to game time and how we manage it. If Hall & Hudson play around 70% game time we could probably use both Jones and a 2nd ruck, but if this game time increases to around 80% it probably squeezes one out. It will be interesting to see how we use the 'oldies' this year as well as getting sufficient games into our developing KPP's.

With the team also having quite a few mids able to 'rest' up forward or down back (not that you really rest too much in these regions in the modern game), we do have some extra flexibility which may allow us to play the extra tall.

[LostDoggy]

We surely haven't gone after pace in our recruiting if we intend to load up on slower talls. I'm wondering whether one ruck will do the job; the other has to play both forward and in the ruck, but have some mobility. That leaves out Minson for mine and brings in the younger brigade like Roughhead or Jones for blocks of games.

[soupman]

I don't see Grant as a KPP in e traditional sense. He'll be more of the Brad Johnson type who is very difficult to match up on.

I don't want him to bulk up because his game style isn't about strength, but more utilizes his strengths which are his pace, agility and clean hands at both ground and in the air.

[Dazza]

We surely haven't gone after pace in our recruiting if we intend to load up on slower talls. I'm wondering whether one ruck will do the job; the other has to play both forward and in the ruck, but have some mobility. That leaves out Minson for mine and brings in the younger brigade like Roughhead or Jones for blocks of games.

Jones isn't slow though. But I doubt he could play in the ruck. Only possibility of playing one ruck in a game is probably having Williams as the backup ruckman while someone like Jones covers his spot which might be too much to ask from an inexperienced player.

This is why Everitt would have been handy to keep on the list.

[Mofra]

Jones isn't slow though. But I doubt he could play in the ruck. Only possibility of playing one ruck in a game is probably having Williams as the backup ruckman while someone like Jones covers his spot which might be too much to ask from an inexperienced player.

This is why Everitt would have been handy to keep on the list.

Roughy is no slouch forward - I rate Roughead as a better forward and a ruckman than Everitt, and would have him in the team well before lil' Spidey.
I actually see Roughead as being the major threat to Jones getting senior games.

[mjp]

This is why Everitt would have been handy to keep on the list.

As a ruck backup?

Well, good news we traded him then!

[Sedat]

As a ruck backup?

I can't recall a more discussed and feted one-off performance than Everitt's ruck back-up effort in Round 22 2009. That match was played under almost no pressure, with both teams guaranteed a top 4 berth, and wanting to save their legs for the finals and not go flat-out for a Sunday twilight match. Not before or since did Everitt have any impact in that specific role, yet it has been mythically talked about in hushed tones since then - even by opposition supporters (especially Collingwood ones, some of whom thought he was the second coming of Len Thompson).

[LostDoggy]

Roughy is no slouch forward - I rate Roughead as a better forward and a ruckman than Everitt, and would have him in the team well before lil' Spidey.
I actually see Roughead as being the major threat to Jones getting senior games.

Hi Guys. Just discovered WOOF. What a breath of fresh air! Agre re: Roughy but based on the above and the new bench size wouldn't the ideal scenario be a Cordy/Huddo combo? Cordy seems to be the most naturally talented forward of our ruck division IMO. A forward line including Grant, Hall and a firing Cordy would excite me greatly Anyone know how close the club feels he is getting a debut?

[Before I Die]

I can't recall a more discussed and feted one-off performance than Everitt's ruck back-up effort in Round 22 2009. That match was played under almost no pressure, with both teams guaranteed a top 4 berth, and wanting to save their legs for the finals and not go flat-out for a Sunday twilight match. Not before or since did Everitt have any impact in that specific role, yet it has been mythically talked about in hushed tones since then - even by opposition supporters (especially Collingwood ones, some of whom thought he was the second coming of Len Thompson).

Wayde Skipper dominated more AFL games (both as a ruckman and as a CHF) than Everitt did from a not too dis-similar number of appearances. He also has (from memory, not research) a matching Western Bulldogs Best First Year Player Award in his cupboard.

[Dazza]

As a ruck backup?

Well, good news we traded him then!

Not only a ruck backup. But could go forward and back without much problem. Jack of all spades master of none type. Would have made a good sub.