James Fantasia

[comrade]

any criticism of him is unwarranted, unwelcomed and bordering on disloyal.

Puhlease.

I'm happy for you to trawl through any recent posts and dig up any instance where someone has said it was 'disloyal' to criticise Eade.

[LongWait]

Puhlease.

I'm happy for you to trawl through any recent posts and dig up any instance where someone has said it was 'disloyal' to criticise Eade.

I'm happy for you to trawl through any recent posts and dig up any instance where I have accused you or anyone of actually saying it is disloyal to criticise Eade.

I was making the point that any questioning of Eade is unwelcomed by some and that the calls to get rid of Fantasia smack a little of deflection - place some of the heat on Fantasia because Rocket is a good coach and responsibility for our on-field performances surely couldn't be the responsibility of the coach? Someone else must be at fault!

[Jasper]

Puhlease.

I'm happy for you to trawl through any recent posts and dig up any instance where someone has said it was 'disloyal' to criticise Eade.

If you define within the last year as 'recent' I've got a doozy for you...

11-07-2010, 07:52 PM
BornInDroopSt'54
Senior Player Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 327

Re: Eade Article - Confirms Suspicions, Raises More Concerns

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"After that interview, and I recall hearing Smorgo say anything less than a GF would be a failure, I am thinking that the board needs to look at a new coach as early as next year." Kelvinator.
There are supporters and there are knockers/whingers.It's so easy and powerful to be negative. It's much harder and more noble to have heart/character and faith. So as we approach the finals Kelvinator is calling for the head of Eade, our coach. He wasn't to know, especially as he is challenged in the heart,intuition and faith department, but we have just beaten the Blues by 76 points and are no doubt favourites to make the top four. I had to contain my anger when this thread called for the head of Eade. Now the anger has grown to contempt.
To call for the head of Eade is the act of a traitor and disqualifies the member from being a supporter and from being part of the 2010 premiership.

[LongWait]

If you define within the last year as 'recent' I've got a doozy for you...

11-07-2010, 07:52 PM
BornInDroopSt'54
Senior Player Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 327

Re: Eade Article - Confirms Suspicions, Raises More Concerns

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"After that interview, and I recall hearing Smorgo say anything less than a GF would be a failure, I am thinking that the board needs to look at a new coach as early as next year." Kelvinator.
There are supporters and there are knockers/whingers.It's so easy and powerful to be negative. It's much harder and more noble to have heart/character and faith. So as we approach the finals Kelvinator is calling for the head of Eade, our coach. He wasn't to know, especially as he is challenged in the heart,intuition and faith department, but we have just beaten the Blues by 76 points and are no doubt favourites to make the top four. I had to contain my anger when this thread called for the head of Eade. Now the anger has grown to contempt.
To call for the head of Eade is the act of a traitor and disqualifies the member from being a supporter and from being part of the 2010 premiership.

QED Comrade.

[Topdog]

If you are having a crack at me please read my first post on this thread. I only made one brief reference to Eade and that was in response to the inference that Fantasia compared poorly when judged against his peers whereas Eade is undoubtable a good coach when compared to his peers. Those who seek to pot Fantasia are the ones who (as usual) mount a lengthy argument about how good Eade is and how any criticism of him is unwarranted, unwelcomed and bordering on disloyal.

Not so much a crack but more posting in disbelief. My main gripe was with this comment.

I was objecting to the wholesale blame-shifting that I perceived to be going on - absolving Eade and scapegoating Fantasia. Everyone needs to be examined and I think we agree on that.

Again no one shifted blame and again there are 5 or 6 threads commenting on Eade and plenty saying that if things don't improve dramatically by seasons end that he should be sacked.

[comrade]

QED Comrade.

I was more referring to this current wave of coach bashing, rather than those wanting to sack him last year prior to our 3rd consecutive top 4 finish.

[Jasper]

There are (rightly) a number of threads discussing Rodney Eade's performance. Why shouldn't there be a thread about Fantasia, the man 'manages' our football department?

In defence of bornadog, he only really shouts down criticism when there is no justification. Any moron can pot someone, but backing it up with some rationale goes a long way - just as it has in this thread.

The whole 'pro Club/pro Eade' diss is getting really boring - aren't we all pro-Club at the end of the day?

I'm happy to read about Fantasia positive or negative and I think it's refreshing that it's been allowed to run it's course.

Back to Fantasia and maybe I'm reading more into this than I should be but I think there has to be more to this issue than what you and GVG are indicating.

[GVGjr]

Guys, lets keep the discussions to Fantasia and not defend or belittle other contributors.
I'll clean off any further comments not directed to the thread title.

There has been some excellent contributions on the thread and I won't have it derailed.

I've cleaned off a couple of posts so contact me if your posts are missing.

[Topdog]

Guido from BF had the following to say.

Every player has their strengths and weaknesses, and in some cases those weaknesses will be in the form of a lack of commitment, intensity and hunger for the contest - they are who they are, and if they're unable to change their ways despite your best efforts, IMO there's not much point in tearing in to them.

But as a club, the focus needs to be on best managing the situation and finding people (replacements) who are capable. Which brings us to the 2010 trade period - the club turned down an offer of a second round plus a fourth round draft pick for Josh Hill.

Fantasia's and Dalrymple's "thinking" was that if Hill was delisted and available in that draft, he would have been picked up in the top 20 (!).

Absolutely delusional, if not incompetent.

Fantasia's and Dalrymple's "thinking" was that it was a weak draft and pick 37 was not worth much. Well, the fourth rounder alone could have recruited Puopolo or Duigan, both of whom would have been absolute walk up starts in our starting 18, both of whom have the intensity to be part of a premiership group, which Hill does not. (And the old "well we wouldn't have picked those players at that pick anyway" argument does not make it the right decision!)

This is where the criticism should lie - the player is who he is, but the footy department's assessment and decision making on that player is what has cost the club. If a player has time and time again proven to not have the capacity to improve his intensity to an AFL acceptable level, and you get a valuable offer, decline it, and a year later he's continued on the same path that he was always destined to continue on, proves worthless on the market and let go for nothing, then questions have to be asked not of the player, but of the competency of the recruiting and list management staff.

[Jasper]

Some history about James Fantasia's judgement some may find bemusing...if anyone wonders where Cam Faulkner got the next Andrew McLeod tag...

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...712935762.html

"Fantasia said: "We've used that analogy, that he's got a bit of Andrew McLeod about him because (like) Andrew McLeod, he can get into the play, take the ball cleanly, run off and make it look easy but with that little special touch. I think Cameron's certainly got that quality about him.

"They're the kind of players that you think, 'How did they do that?' "

The Bulldogs are mindful of the comparison but want to see Faulkner flourish in his own right. "He's got some terrific, exciting attributes which Andrew McLeod has certainly got, but to label someone with that, you just hope that it's not going to impinge on him because we don't want to put that sort of pressure on him," Clayton said."

Here's another example of Fantasia's effective use of the media, and his overall effectiveness...

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/...-1111112308298

"Fantasia is quoted as saying: "We'll be making every effort possible to make sure Bryce Gibbs plays the majority of his career at the Adelaide footy club.

"That's on notice and I think the Gibbs family is very happy with that concept. Bryce is the one who will make the decision and that will be two years down the track. We will do everything in our power to get him home and, if it's not that time, it will be the time after until we do it.

"We make no bones about it. He should be with the Adelaide footy club. We're the victim here."

Here's another article summarising Adelaide's drafting while Fantasia was at Adelaide...troubling

http://www.afc.com.au/season2009/blo...9/default.aspx

[Sedat]

Is there a bit more to this focus on Fantasia that I'm not aware of?

The players (in particular the leadership group), the coach and the president are all being discussed and dissected ad nauseum in relation to our dramatic form slump. I think it is for the most part healthy discussion, just as I think such discussion on the performance of the head of our footy dept is also very healthy. It is obviously not as high profile a role as that of senior coach but it is no less important.

[jeemak]

Reading through this thread it obvious with all the little things added up he has made some blunders.

Was he in charge of the 2010 review? If so did Rose put him in charge of it?

Assuming there is another review at years end who should Garlick get to head it up?

I think it's time for a review now. I don't think we can afford to wait until the end of the season, we have some talented players on the list that desperately require more development and clear direction on the areas that require improvement from them as soon as they are allowed to begin training after their break.

Fantasia can't be involved in the steering of the review. As many posters have highlighted there is strong evidence to suggest he is a contributor to the issues we're facing and likely to face over the next year or so due to missed opportunities and contracting players to the club unnecessarily. He along with all members of the football department need to be analised by an independent person or group.

I've read interesting comments surrounding Fantasia's current profile, or lack thereof over the last month or so. He seems to have dropped off the face of the earth.

[Sedat]

Time for Fantasia to earn his keep - Callan Ward is a massively important part of our on-field future, and contract negotiations are Fantasia's 'grand final'. He certainly struggled badly with the Lake and Harbrow contract negotiations so I sincerely hope he can achieve a positive result for the club in relation to Ward. I know the new clubs are placing inflationary pressures on the rest of the competition but no other club lost an under 23 that was heavily required to GC apart from us. Would be a massive blow to the club if Fantasia failed to retain yet another crucial plank in our team for the next 8-10 years, or paid such a ridiculously high premium to retain him that we lost other crucial players in the ensuing years.

[The Underdog]

Wait -- Collingwood, with a Premiership list, managed to get Tarrant and Krakeour in under the cap and offloaded Fraser's contract in the process.

What kind of money are we spending on fringe players that our cap is overflowing? Be that as it may, isn't this precisely the job of the front office -- ie. to balance our cap so that we can be competitive at trade week? If we don't have space in our cap to trade for Walker, that would be Fantasia's remit as well -- it's having the ability to plan forward and not just be reactive -- if we don't have space in the cap because of contracts to the likes of Hooper, DJ, Mulligan, Moles etc. that really brings into question the competence of our scouts -- one solid AFL player is worth much more than a handful of second-hand fringe players that will never cement a spot in any side.

We would have offloaded Minson's contract if a philosophical difference at GC had gone that way instead of Fraser, from all reports. We'd just had to upgrade the money paid to Lake, Cooney & Griffen in recent years and a lot of the money coming off our books was in veteran's list players. Despite Krakouer's past he wouldn't be on huge money and Tarrant would have comfortably fit into the hole left by Fraser, Lockyer, O'Bree and Prestigiacomo.
Not saying they haven't done a great job, but most of their young stars (Swan, Thomas, Pendlebury) were coming out of contract post 2011. I have no doubt they will sign who they need to now but give it a couple more years after the premiership glow has worn off and we'll see where they sit and who is left then.
In all I don't disagree with you, particularly on Hooper & Mulligan and I do have doubts over our list management overall.

[The Underdog]

Time for Fantasia to earn his keep - Callan Ward is a massively important part of our on-field future, and contract negotiations are Fantasia's 'grand final'. He certainly struggled badly with the Lake and Harbrow contract negotiations so I sincerely hope he can achieve a positive result for the club in relation to Ward. I know the new clubs are placing inflationary pressures on the rest of the competition but no other club lost an under 23 that was heavily required to GC apart from us. Would be a massive blow to the club if Fantasia failed to retain yet another crucial plank in our team for the next 8-10 years, or paid such a ridiculously high premium to retain him that we lost other crucial players in the ensuing years.

To be honest, I think if the difference in what they offer him and what we can offer him is half a million for 5 years, it's going to come down purely to whether Cal wants the cash or to stay in Melbourne. We can't go anywhere near matching that and it would seriously hurt our ability to retain players for the next 3-5 years.
I'd hate for him to go, but I don't think I'd put that one on Fantasia or anyone else at the club aside from Ward.