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  1. #16
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    Re: Eade's future in the hands of Top Dogs

    I'm assuming the selection process is criteria based...that is, regardless of who is on the panel, we weigh up what Rocket says against the listed criteria and evaluate accordingly. It usually becomes clear as to who is best suited to the criteria that we have developed. It should have absolutely nothing to do with whether 2 people get on or not.

  2. #17
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    Re: Eade's future in the hands of Top Dogs

    Metal, that's like saying we may as well have a computer program to decide for us -- input all the data and cross-check against 'criteria', voila out pops an answer. We all know that picking a coach is not a black-and-white, simplistic process. You've mentioned in your post 'evaluate accordingly', and a proper evaluation needs objectivity and subjectivity in the right mix. Conflicts of interest (ie. competing positions, people who have more to lose than most etc.) make this mix nearly impossible to get right.

  3. #18
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    Re: Eade's future in the hands of Top Dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by Sockeye Salmon View Post
    Who should we get do do it then? Eddie Maguire?


    We could have a reality show of all the bush coaches where the winner gets to coach next year.

    Perhaps we could get all the fams to SMS their choice of coach?*

    *texts charged at 50c/day. You must be over 18. SMS 'STOP' to end. Exit fees and charges may apply.
    Hiring external people who have nothing to do with the club in 2010 and don't have an agenda. My stance is nothing to do with the people involved but these reviews done by people involved in the day to day running of the business are flawed.

    Questions like "Did Rocket have everything available to him to be as successful as possible?" Do you think anyone will answer "No I did this and that wrong"? I doubt it esp. when they also may have the end of their own contract coming.

  4. #19
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    Re: Eade's future in the hands of Top Dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by Lantern View Post
    Metal, that's like saying we may as well have a computer program to decide for us -- input all the data and cross-check against 'criteria', voila out pops an answer. We all know that picking a coach is not a black-and-white, simplistic process. You've mentioned in your post 'evaluate accordingly', and a proper evaluation needs objectivity and subjectivity in the right mix. Conflicts of interest (ie. competing positions, people who have more to lose than most etc.) make this mix nearly impossible to get right.
    Unless of course you hire external people to do it....

  5. #20
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    Re: Eade's future in the hands of Top Dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    I don't see anything wrong with the process. The club has said all along that the review will take place at the end of the year and that is what they are doing.
    BAD -- you are arguing the club line, ie. 'that's what we've said all along, so if we stick to our word we can absolve ourselves of all responsibility if the process turns to pot'. What I'm saying is that circumstances are continually changing, and a dynamic and proactive club will react accordingly: there's no point saying 'we stuck to process and timelines' if Rocket ends up poached or leaving against our wishes. Agility and responsiveness are not only important virtues on-field.

    Matthews wrote an interesting piece in June about this, and I'll just quote his conclusion:

    "While these three clubs have big decisions to make about where they stand in that shifting balance between perseverance or change, I do believe strongly that July is the crunch month and decisions should be made by the beginning of August so that all parties can plan ahead with certainty."

    As it is, there are suspicions that Rocket is planning the rest of the year with his short-term future in mind (ie. performance) rather than the club's long-term future (ie. development).

    Finally, if we end up deciding we want Rocket, but he leaves anyway for a better offer because of our tardiness (how hard was it to foresee any of this? We're not the first club in history to have a coach entering the final year of a contract), it would be a massive blow to our club's reputation, psyche and standing in relation to other clubs, not to mention throw us right to the back of the queue in a search for a new senior coach, both in terms of a timeline as well as a desired destination for aspiring senior coaches. Our risk and reputation management leaves a lot to be desired, and if the club's response is simply sticking to the party line of 'we sticking to a timeline we set at the start of the year', then we'll get what we deserve in a cut-throat competitive cauldron.

  6. #21
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    Re: Eade's future in the hands of Top Dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by Lantern View Post
    BAD -- you are arguing the club line, ie. 'that's what we've said all along, so if we stick to our word we can absolve ourselves of all responsibility if the process turns to pot'. What I'm saying is that circumstances are continually changing, and a dynamic and proactive club will react accordingly: there's no point saying 'we stuck to process and timelines' if Rocket ends up poached or leaving against our wishes. Agility and responsiveness are not only important virtues on-field.

    Matthews wrote an interesting piece in June about this, and I'll just quote his conclusion:

    "While these three clubs have big decisions to make about where they stand in that shifting balance between perseverance or change, I do believe strongly that July is the crunch month and decisions should be made by the beginning of August so that all parties can plan ahead with certainty."

    As it is, there are suspicions that Rocket is planning the rest of the year with his short-term future in mind (ie. performance) rather than the club's long-term future (ie. development).

    Finally, if we end up deciding we want Rocket, but he leaves anyway for a better offer because of our tardiness (how hard was it to foresee any of this? We're not the first club in history to have a coach entering the final year of a contract), it would be a massive blow to our club's reputation, psyche and standing in relation to other clubs, not to mention throw us right to the back of the queue in a search for a new senior coach, both in terms of a timeline as well as a desired destination for aspiring senior coaches. Our risk and reputation management leaves a lot to be desired, and if the club's response is simply sticking to the party line of 'we sticking to a timeline we set at the start of the year', then we'll get what we deserve in a cut-throat competitive cauldron.
    But do we actually want Rocket and are we definately in a position to know that now? Clarkson is in the same position at Hawthorn (have they moved on that yet?)

    Rocket has always said he wants to stay coaching the Bulldogs and I believe was under the impression that there would be a review at year's end. I would assume that the Adelaide and Melbourne coaching positions would not even gear up until after season's end, when both clubs know exactly what coaches were on the cards. Rocket has time to sign a contract after the end of the season with us as well as sign a contract with another club if necessary. There seems to be a lot of unnecessary tension around this issue because of the position we are going to finish on the ladder, stiff bickies, there is a review process in place and as far as I am concerned to make a decision now would be a reactive decision; reactive to a situation. I think post-season reviews are a more measured process were emotion(s) have less impact on the decision making process, but that's just me.

    As for risk and reputation, reputation is thrown out the window when clubs start sacking coaches with four weeks of football left if you ask me. You make it sound like no-one wants tocome and coach at the Bulldogs and we will not get who we want if we don't want Rocket and don't act now.
    But then again, I'm an Internet poster and Bevo is a premiership coach so draw your own conclusions.

  7. #22
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    Re: Eade's future in the hands of Top Dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by Lantern View Post
    BAD -- you are arguing the club line, ie. 'that's what we've said all along, so if we stick to our word we can absolve ourselves of all responsibility if the process turns to pot'. What I'm saying is that circumstances are continually changing, and a dynamic and proactive club will react accordingly: there's no point saying 'we stuck to process and timelines' if Rocket ends up poached or leaving against our wishes. Agility and responsiveness are not only important virtues on-field.

    Matthews wrote an interesting piece in June about this, and I'll just quote his conclusion:

    "While these three clubs have big decisions to make about where they stand in that shifting balance between perseverance or change, I do believe strongly that July is the crunch month and decisions should be made by the beginning of August so that all parties can plan ahead with certainty."

    As it is, there are suspicions that Rocket is planning the rest of the year with his short-term future in mind (ie. performance) rather than the club's long-term future (ie. development).

    Finally, if we end up deciding we want Rocket, but he leaves anyway for a better offer because of our tardiness (how hard was it to foresee any of this? We're not the first club in history to have a coach entering the final year of a contract), it would be a massive blow to our club's reputation, psyche and standing in relation to other clubs, not to mention throw us right to the back of the queue in a search for a new senior coach, both in terms of a timeline as well as a desired destination for aspiring senior coaches. Our risk and reputation management leaves a lot to be desired, and if the club's response is simply sticking to the party line of 'we sticking to a timeline we set at the start of the year', then we'll get what we deserve in a cut-throat competitive cauldron.
    I don't agree Lantern, why should the club behold to the threat of outside forces in relation to choosing their coach. Rocket knows what the process is and has already stated he wants to coach the Bulldogs again from next year. Now he must wait for the process to be completed and then he can make his decision. Hopefully he is an Honorable person and if he is offered something else he weights up all the offers before finally deciding.

    We don't need a gun held to our head to make a decision.
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  8. #23
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    Re: Eade's future in the hands of Top Dogs

    What would you do if you were Eade and Melbourne put a contract in front of you this week?

    Rodney, the jobs yours if you want it but we can't afford to wait, we have to know in case we need to look elsewhere.



    Why would you risk not getting either job?

    (This is precisely what Collingwood did to Mark Neeld when we were talking to him about an assistant position)

  9. #24
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    Re: Eade's future in the hands of Top Dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by 1eyedog View Post
    But do we actually want Rocket and are we definately in a position to know that now? Clarkson is in the same position at Hawthorn (have they moved on that yet?) .
    We are not in a position to know or do anything because we are reactive. Just as in the last two trade periods, we will end up with whatever we end up with. Hawthorn are in a slightly different position considering that they are sitting in a top 4 position.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1eyedog View Post
    As for risk and reputation, reputation is thrown out the window when clubs start sacking coaches with four weeks of football left if you ask me. You make it sound like no-one wants tocome and coach at the Bulldogs and we will not get who we want if we don't want Rocket and don't act now.
    Of course we will have a senior coach at the start of 2012. The question is, would we still be able to attract the best candidate? Believe me, if we lose our coach to another team unwillingly because we were too slow there WILL be damage to our reputation and desirability as a coaching destination -- the last time we lost a coach at a time not of our choosing we ended up having Rohde as the only choice left to us.

    Also, you better believe that Adelaide and Melbourne are already well into their process of recruitment for 2012 -- they appointed headhunting agencies the week they sacked their former coaches.

  10. #25
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    Re: Eade's future in the hands of Top Dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    I don't agree Lantern, why should the club behold to the threat of outside forces in relation to choosing their coach. Rocket knows what the process is and has already stated he wants to coach the Bulldogs again from next year. Now he must wait for the process to be completed and then he can make his decision. Hopefully he is an Honorable person and if he is offered something else he weights up all the offers before finally deciding.

    We don't need a gun held to our head to make a decision.
    I'm not talking about the threat of outside forces -- the facts internal to the club are:

    • Rocket is on the last year of his contract
    • Our season was shot halfway through


    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to start planning for 2012 based on that summation. The reality is that it will potentially have an impact on match-day selection if a coach is coaching for his survival (and reputation) or for the longer-term, so it's not as simple as saying 'oh well, too bad'.. it has a DIRECT impact on the future of our playing list.

    The final year of a coaching contract is always a difficult situation -- I argue that clubs should never let it get to this point anyway: if a coach is performing well (and three prelims in the last three years suggest Rocket falls in this category) he should be getting his contract regularly extended to have at least 2 years left on his contract so that if a bad year comes along he doesn't have the twin pressures of bad performance and media pressure due to it being the final year of his contract, and the club has an extra year to make a decision (you don't have to extend his contract during a bad year, and if he turns the club around in the final year, then you can easily extend it then).

    Someone brought up Clarkson, and he's a good example of how a club handles bad performance -- he had his contracts regularly extended after the good years the club's had, so even though last year was a bad year for the Hawks, Clarkson didn't get the media scrutiny he would have if it was the final year on his contract. The Hawks didn't extend his contract since it was a bad year but he did get this year to turn it around.

  11. #26
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    Re: Eade's future in the hands of Top Dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by Lantern View Post
    Someone brought up Clarkson, and he's a good example of how a club handles bad performance -- he had his contracts regularly extended after the good years the club's had, so even though last year was a bad year for the Hawks, Clarkson didn't get the media scrutiny he would have if it was the final year on his contract. The Hawks didn't extend his contract since it was a bad year but he did get this year to turn it around.
    Then why aren't Hawthorn locking in Clarkson right now? The only difference between the Hawks situation and ours is they are a top four this year and we are struggling to make the top 8.
    FFC: Established 1883

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  12. #27
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    Re: Eade's future in the hands of Top Dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by Sockeye Salmon View Post
    What would you do if you were Eade and Melbourne put a contract in front of you this week?

    Rodney, the jobs yours if you want it but we can't afford to wait, we have to know in case we need to look elsewhere.



    Why would you risk not getting either job?

    (This is precisely what Collingwood did to Mark Neeld when we were talking to him about an assistant position)
    It's a different situation and purely a hypothetical one. If the decision was critical I would hope that the board would look at fast tracking the review process, but I would be a little pissed off at Melbourne telling me they wanted a decision within the next 3 days while I still have another four games to coach (ala Terry Wallace).

    I would take the offer to Fantasia, Garlick, Smorgon and any other relevant board members and say 'you'd better start that review process'.

    If they refused I would accept the Melbourne job and then quit at season's end. Maybe that's what has already happened and maybe we have already started interviewing likely candidates.

    Hypotheticals.
    But then again, I'm an Internet poster and Bevo is a premiership coach so draw your own conclusions.

  13. #28
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    Re: Eade's future in the hands of Top Dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by Lantern View Post
    I'm not talking about the threat of outside forces -- the facts internal to the club are:

    • Rocket is on the last year of his contract
    • Our season was shot halfway through


    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to start planning for 2012 based on that summation. The reality is that it will potentially have an impact on match-day selection if a coach is coaching for his survival (and reputation) or for the longer-term, so it's not as simple as saying 'oh well, too bad'.. it has a DIRECT impact on the future of our playing list.

    The final year of a coaching contract is always a difficult situation -- I argue that clubs should never let it get to this point anyway: if a coach is performing well (and three prelims in the last three years suggest Rocket falls in this category) he should be getting his contract regularly extended to have at least 2 years left on his contract so that if a bad year comes along he doesn't have the twin pressures of bad performance and media pressure due to it being the final year of his contract, and the club has an extra year to make a decision (you don't have to extend his contract during a bad year, and if he turns the club around in the final year, then you can easily extend it then).

    Someone brought up Clarkson, and he's a good example of how a club handles bad performance -- he had his contracts regularly extended after the good years the club's had, so even though last year was a bad year for the Hawks, Clarkson didn't get the media scrutiny he would have if it was the final year on his contract. The Hawks didn't extend his contract since it was a bad year but he did get this year to turn it around.
    I brought him up and I think we need to take into consideration that he is a premiership coach at the team he is still coaching which is a bit different to our coach who has not recently won us a premiership and is currently sitting in 11th position or wherever we are.
    But then again, I'm an Internet poster and Bevo is a premiership coach so draw your own conclusions.

  14. #29
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    Re: Eade's future in the hands of Top Dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by Sockeye Salmon View Post
    What would you do if you were Eade and Melbourne put a contract in front of you this week?

    Rodney, the jobs yours if you want it but we can't afford to wait, we have to know in case we need to look elsewhere.


    Why would you risk not getting either job?
    Why should we be dictated to by the threat of what other clubs might do?

    Unless we are as good as a 100% certain we will either reappoint him or let him go I don't think we should rush the decision. Market pressures are always there but it's not a sufficient threat to make hasty decision. As we all know it's an important decision and whilst we obviously can't dawdle, unless Rocket demands a decision now we should complete a thorough review. I'd give it 2 weeks to be completed.

    I think there is more cause for concern about if we have the right people making this decision rather than what the Melbourne FC might do.

    I was very surprised to read that Fantasia was one of the committee.
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  15. #30
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    Re: Eade's future in the hands of Top Dogs

    But both SS and GVGjr are right.

    If Eade gets the offer, he should take it to the Dogs. The Dogs - if they are committed to the review - will thank him for the information and tell him that they have decided to stick to their original plan. Eade then accepts the position at Melbourne. Bulldogs review is then extended to incorporate a coaching search.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

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