Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

[The Doctor]

Doc, I think a lot of people would be surprised that we both have Skinner as either being delisted (you) or lucky to be maintained (me) especially given the hype that surrounded him early in the season.

Whats your thoughts on his chances of becoming a senior player?

none

I never understood the hype. Just because he can jump very high and do backflips doesn't make you a good footballer. I've seen enough of him to be convinced he just hasn't got the ability. 2 weeks ago he played in the Willi 2nd's v Box Hill and was plain awful. He flew for his usual batch of speculative marks and got nowhere near them. He fell off tackles and the 3 kicks he did get went straight to the opposition. Now if that was Hill or Stack he would have lynched by now.

[GVGjr]

none

I never understood the hype. Just because he can jump very high and do backflips doesn't make you a good footballer. I've seen enough of him to be convinced he just hasn't got the ability. 2 weeks ago he played in the Willi 2nd's v Box Hill and was plain awful. He flew for his usual batch of speculative marks and got nowhere near them. He fell off tackles and the 3 kicks he did get went straight to the opposition. Now if that was Hill or Stack he would have lynched by now.

It makes you wonder the reasons why he was gifted a senior game this year.
I do like his athleticism and his willingness to chase after the opposition but you're spot on about his kicking and his decision making.

[Mofra]

So that is 2 confirmed and one possibility with a question on Hargrave as well. It's a hard one on Hargrave because he believes he can still play but must have some concerns about life after football if he gets another leg injury.

Shaggy is one of three partners in a boxing gym with Hall & Hahn - I don't think he has worries with life after football, and given the two partners will be involved full time at the gym Shaggy may well also decide to pull the pin, despite being contracted for 2012.

[GVGjr]

Shaggy is one of three partners in a boxing gym with Hall & Hahn - I don't think he has worries with life after football, and given the two partners will be involved full time at the gym Shaggy may well also decide to pull the pin, despite being contracted for 2012.

I meant more about getting another leg injury rather than any financial implications.
He talked to the player sponsors a couple of months back and mentioned that having a fused ankle and a couple of other injuries could be an issue for him after his footy days are over. I think he realised that another injury could really limit him.

[ledge]

We didn't with Thorne. I tend to think he will have another season but if he has found life in Melbourne a difficult adjustment he might ask to be released.

IF i remember correctly Thorne got a major injury and that just gave him no chance, Skinner from what I have seen and have talked to him says he loves it here and still is hungry.

[LostDoggy]

I see Addison as a ready made senior body for GWS.

My thoughts exactly.

Also.. Barlow isn't a star but looks a very versatile gap filler.

Hargy and Gilbs should go hopefully they see it that way too.

[LostDoggy]

IF i remember correctly Thorne got a major injury and that just gave him no chance, Skinner from what I have seen and have talked to him says he loves it here and still is hungry.

I live in Darwin and I know first hand how hard it is for the indigenous boys to make the transition from here to the AFL. I was recently speaking with someone who knows Zephi and they mentioned that he loves it at the dogs. You simply cannot expect a young guy from the Kimberley to arrive at the club and be an instant superstar. Anyway, wouldn't he have been given a two year contract?

[SlimPickens]

Trade:
Higgins, if we can get someone to pay over
Hill, if anyone's interested

100% agree with this, Higgins has been disappointing again this year and his defensive efforts once again extremely poor. He will still hold some currency with a number of clubs and should be traded if possible.

[LostDoggy]

100% agree with this, Higgins has been disappointing again this year and his defensive efforts once again extremely poor. He will still hold some currency with a number of club and should be traded if possible.

Agree. I think we always look for excuses to explain why Higgins isn't reaching the lofty heights that everyone expects him to. Maybe a move would be a win win for both parties???

[Maddog37]

Skinner looked ok to me. Give him more time.

Gilbee and Shaggy need to be able to get absolutely rock hard it. If they can't then they probably need to consider their future.

Higgins is the biggest tease ever but somehow I feel we should hang on to him an give him a summer of repeat sprint training.

Hill lacks courage at times and if we can trade we should.

We really need to sit down with GWS and see what we can do.

[divvydan]

What is the situation about paying out veterans? I think their full contracted salary goes against the salary cap if you pay them out early which I don't think is worth doing. Different if they retire though.

I suspect that Gilbee might pull the pin and Hargrave might stick it out for another 12 months.
This allows us to move Lakes contract to the veterans list. If Hargrave goes then we could also add Murphy.

You're right that if we force out a veteran that we'd have to pay his full salary against the cap.

Even if both Gilbee and Hargrave run around against next year, we can move 1/3 of Lake's salary to the veteran's cap (Lake himself would stay inside the main list). This would then mean that 1/3 of Gilbee and 1/3 of Hargrave's are outside the cap. Given Lake's contract, that would still save a reasonable amount of money.

In that same line, we could do the same with Murphy and have 4 lots of 1/4 salaries not being counted against the cap but without knowing hos much each player is on, it's difficult to know when this stops helping. In short, the new player (Lake, Murphy) would have to be on more money than those already on the Veterans list.

[mjp]

It makes you wonder the reasons why he was gifted a senior game this year.

No wondering here. The club were selling hope after the season had gone pear shaped and hoped that he might take mark of the year.

No doubt that game should have been given to Dalhaus who was in terrific form (or even Veszpremi if no chance to do a rookie upgrade)...much of this was discussed on this forum at the time though and Skinner had a lot of defenders.

[1eyedog]

If Hargrave stays then there probably isn't a spot for either of them.
Hargrave, Picken, Schofield, Wood, Howard and of course Murphy pretty much cover all the back pocket and back flank options we need to cover. If Hargrave goes then Stack would probably be maintained.

Agreed in theory, but even if Hargrave stays Stack will be good insurance down back. Shaggy is injury prone and must only have a year left. We have persisted with Stack this year and I think that will continue. We did see glimpses toward the end of the season.

I know Hargrave can play much taller than Stack, but I think Stack can fill other roles in the future rather than just as a back flanker. I think his perceived flexibility and well as a required depth player will help him to hold his stop and maybe even provide him with the opportunity to prove his detractors wrong.

[LostDoggy]

You would hope that the new coach starts with a new game plan and new attitude towards fitness, speed, and defensive skills. Watching the Geelong game, I couldn't help but think how they play so well as a team, and part of that has to do with being so well drilled as to what each player's role is and the skill to execute it. We have too many players who let us down in both areas, players who don't subscribe to the game plan or whose skills aren't up to it in normal situations, let alone pressure cooker situations. And until we sort out who is completely capable of subscribing to and executing that game plan, we really are stabbing in the dark as to who to keep and who not to.

[The Underdog]

100% agree with this, Higgins has been disappointing again this year and his defensive efforts once again extremely poor. He will still hold some currency with a number of clubs and should be traded if possible.

I'm just concerned that his lack of pace and ability to seperate is causing him to rush his kicking and miss targets. When he plays back and gets some space his kicking is quite good but as you say his defensive efforts aren't spectacular.
Even with this I'd only do it if we got a particularly good offer. He is one of the few players who we might be willing to trade who might have some currency. He's still only 23 after all.