2017: How did we fall this far?

[Webby]

From sitting in pubs, bathing in glory in October, the future seemed to be ours. So how did we get here? Interesting discussion point. Here is my initial take:

Hamling repaid the faith and became not far off an A grade AFL defender in the back half of last year. Something we badly missed.... But his dad was sick, so we released him back to Perth.

Cloke was pretty much always a mistake. He was signed as cover for the recovering Redpath, but broke his ribs early in the season. That spot would have been better served with a kid.

The homegrown Mitch Hannan was nicked by Melbourne at the draft two picks before we'd have surely taken him. That was gut wrenching as Hannan was our kid and a great opportunity to demonstrate the progression path from VFL to AFL within our four walls.

Casting the mind back to last summer, the prospect of Crameri coming back into the lineup (Stringer had clearly missed him in '16) to join Jake and Dickson (who kicked 82 goals 40 behinds between them in 2016) was mouth watering...

Alas, Crameri came back looking broken (turns out he was!) and Dickson is a shadow of himself.

The trio have managed just 30 goals 26 between them this year.

Hamling's loss was tough to take, but at least we had Marcus Adams to come back in... and surely he wouldn't suffer another season ending injury as the one he had in 2016..... except he did..! Leaving us badly undermanned down back.

Goalkicking: There is only one club in the AFL who have scored more behinds than goals this year. It's us, and its us by a country mile!!!

We've kicked 168 goals 201 behinds this year. That is deplorable. Particularly for a team that plays indoors! We've badly missed Dickson's accuracy, but surely this area of the game needs to be looked at - and provides significant upside.

WE ARE HISTORICALLY AWFUL AT GOAL-KICKING, BUT IT'S FIXABLE.

The Rocky 3 factor:
A young team breaking a drought as big as the WBFC one was always going to affect heads. Call it psychology, or simply head size. Not a great scenario for a side whose strength is work rate, team pressure, sacrifice etc.

For those who haven't seen the film, this clip may explain it:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_sRCHrSaVXQ

Basically, we are Rocky and Clubber Lang (Mr T) is the other 17 clubs.

Whilst several young sides were busting their guts in pre-season, looking for any edge they could get to chase the dream, you just got the feeling that our guys might have backed off one or two percent.. After such an emotional high, it's difficult to really drive yourself on that exercise bike... As wanky as it sounds, the "eye of the tiger" edge that a group like ours so heavily relies on, is hard to tap into..

Enter Libba:
In many ways the heart and soul of the club... However the knock here is pretty obvious. It's also a more obvious indicator of what I think lies beneath the surface for many of our players. Libba's post season partying was 'epic.' It was joyous to watch - at the time... however it's not so endearing now... Libba is a shadow of himself. He's such a hard, clever player who is capable of being elite... however he's struggled to justify selection in the side, for goodness sake.

He should be in Brownlow conversations - not selection table conversations..

Soft list management approach:
Having watched extensive VFL games over the past three and a half years, I really like Mitch Honeychurch's pluck. He'll be a very good captain-coach in the country leagues. However he's simply not AFL calibre and should have been delisted last year.

Cloke, as I've said earlier, was a mistake. We'll hold onto him due to his mental state, but if we were ruthless, we'd pay him out and free up his spot.

Koby Stevens, although limited, is missed. As mentioned earlier, so is Hamling.

On the Jong vs Hrovat front, we probably kept the wrong player. Hrovat has a touch of guile and class that is handy. I admire Jing greatly, but if I'm honest, he's clearly never going to spark us with too much clever ball use. Hrovat will do so throughout his career.

Declan Hamilton has clearly been persevered with for too long. Webb not having stepped up into either Murphy's or Moyd's vacated positions is a concern.

Anyway, as with Rocky (and Hawthorn '09), hopefully the wounded pride will do us some good. We can go back to the well to top up, perhaps trade some players, whilst on the bright side, we've had a few players deflate their market value in recent months. So our cap pressure seems a fair bit reduced.

English looks a great prospect, whilst Dale and McLean have come along strongly. Williams also looks to be developing well.

We will land a top 10 draft pick and will hopefully use it to land some class. As above, our cap space should allow us to go FA chasing. I hope we can deal well.

This may be, as Paul Keating once said, "The recession we had to have." A side with our DNA's essential ingredient is passion and hunger. Not only on field, but in preparation. We're not a particularly structural side, so there is no such thing as coasting on three cylinders. We're either on or we're not.

We can turn it around, and I believe wounded pride will be the spark... but unfortunately, we'll have to wait until 2018.

I do not think it's the end of the world. This core group's got plenty of finals footy ahead of it. We just need to keep our heads and restock somewhat. Interested to know others' thoughts?

[AndrewP6]

Don't consider Cloke a mistake, no one was to know he'd be injured (ribs) then be out dealing with mental health issues. As you say, the prospect of Cloke, Crameri, Stringer, Boyd etc up forward was exciting. Not sure I agree with the Murphy/Boyd 'vacated positions' either - They're not vacated yet.

I am unhappy with our skills /goalkicking being an issue, as it has been for years now.

[Webby]

Not sure I agree with the Murphy/Boyd 'vacated positions' either - They're not vacated yet. .

What I mean by "vacated positions" is the 13 games that M Boyd and Murphy have missed between them this season. One would have hoped that Webb might've grasped the opportunity that these vacated positions have presented. Particularly with an eye to the next 5-10 years.

[Doc26]

Losing Hamling has proven to be a very costly loss.

Actually plays a lot in the Lever mould with his smart reading of the play in defence.

Fremantle picked up a steel at minimal cost which I'm quite peeved about.

I hope we did everything early in the 2016 season to retain his services otherwise we need to take a look at our list management process especially now that we're looking at tabling a huge offer to lever Lever.

Instead of focussing 2017 (or 2016 with Hurley for that matter) on loading up on a Hamling like replacement we could've targeted another key need being a Josh Kelly / Dusty type elite midfielder.

We need to be very smart in the next trade period and pick up our own Hamling type again.

[Webby]

Hamling hurt me because he was "my guy" amongst my group of Dogs supporting mates. I'd really talked him up from what I'd seen at VFL level.

I remember the one mate I'd debated his worth with saying that we could shut the door on Hamling as we'd "got him for nothing and gotten a second round pick for him on the way out." I couldn't help thinking that was a loss for us. Way unders..

The other thing was, it was clear he really didn't want to leave. I was hoping for a compromise - perhaps additional time off to visit the old man or something. Anyway, Hamling out plus the Hurley miss definitely knocked us onto the back foot in post season trading.

Although I can't remember Hawthorn doing anything exceptional in '08 post their flag, but '09 was a big exception. Hopefully we follow suit as we'll have some clear deficiencies to address. I think we'll still be viewed as a destination club and I reckon we actually drafted very well last November.

[Flamethrower]

We got too far ahead of ourselves - the club was talking about "bark to bark" before the season even started as if it was a fait accompli.

[ledge]

We got too far ahead of ourselves - the club was talking about "bark to bark" before the season even started as if it was a fait accompli.

The club ? I think you mean the media and supporters.

[Webby]

Another thing that's dropped away is our speed of ball movement.

Most noticeable for me is Luke Dahlhaus. He's become a very stop-start player, which was never the case last year - or ever for that matter.

I think speed of ball movement is a snowballing thing borne out of momentum and confidence. We need a regroup and a recharge. One that bruised pride, reflection, reloading and refreshing can provide.

[Twodogs]

Another thing that's dropped away is our speed of ball movement.

Most noticeable for me is Luke Dahlhaus. He's become a very stop-start player, which was never the case last year - or ever for that matter.

I think speed of ball movement is a snowballing thing borne out of momentum and confidence. We need a regroup and a recharge. One that bruised pride, reflection, reloading and refreshing can provide.

Luke took a mark last night and his first instinct was to keep the ball moving but instead he stopped and turned his back on play and took a deep breath. It was like someone has told him he should hold up play more.

This may be, as Paul Keating once said, "The recession we had to have"

That remark didn't go real well for Keating I seem to recall.

[Webby]

That remark didn't go real well for Keating I seem to recall.

Actually on the contrary. Although an apparently stupid and insulting thing to say at the time (in 1990 as Treasurer), he went on to successfully seize the Prime Ministership from Hawke, won the unwinable election in 1993 (or was it '94?) and has then spruiked the "unmatched 27 years of prosperity" ever since "the recession we had to have."

I'm hopeful that we can get some genuine support for Stringer up forward (via one or two of T Boyd, Crameri or Dickson overcoming their ailments), Libba can have a huge pre-season (avoiding Vietnam) and recapture his fantastic best (& thus forming a brilliant midfield partnership with Bont), Dale, Daniel and McLean continue to develop, English comes on, Williams develops, Adams returns sound, Cordy continues to fulfil potential, JJ adds a hard edge, Taylor comes on, Dahl gets his mojo back, and we manage one or two trades and free agents to add to solid draft picks.

[Twodogs]

Actually on the contrary. Although an apparently stupid and insulting thing to say at the time (in 1990 as Treasurer), he went on to successfully seize the Prime Ministership from Hawke, won the unwinable election in 1993 (or was it '94?) and has then spruiked the "unmatched 27 years of prosperity" ever since "the recession we had to have."

I'm hopeful that we can get some genuine support for Stringer up forward (via one or two of T Boyd, Crameri or Dickson overcoming their ailments), Libba can have a huge pre-season (avoiding Vietnam) and recapture his fantastic best (& thus forming a brilliant midfield partnership with Bont), Dale, Daniel and McLean continue to develop, English comes on, Williams develops, Adams returns sound, Cordy continues to fulfil potential, JJ adds a hard edge, Taylor comes on, Dahl gets his mojo back, and we manage one or two trades and free agents to add to solid draft picks.

'93 was the True Believers. Actually as I wrote that I thought to myself "nah, Keating was a smart bastard. That was the start of his rise to the top job."

Geez Hamling has turned out to be a huge loss. I thiught if he'd played for us instead of them when we played Freo earlier in the year we would have won. Freo made out like bandits snaring a premiership fullback for a late second round draft, at the time even I thought we had settled for too little in return.

like you said earlier I wish we had come up with a viable plan to keep him with us.

[Topdog]

I hope we did everything early in the 2016 season to retain his services otherwise we need to take a look at our list management process especially now that we're looking at tabling a huge offer to lever Lever.

When he was a spud and looked like being delisted?

[GVGjr]

We shouldn't have fallen so far, we won both the AFL and VFL competitions but in this competition if you are standing still you are going backwards and given the changes we made we needed our full list to be switched on and I don't think we were. Clearly we weren't even standing still and we must have taken a step or two backwards.

Sadly I now concede the hunger does not appear to be there.

Also sadly is we will probably need to set-up the well worn end of season review to work out why this has occurred.

The coaches box, the fitness and conditioning team, the match committee decisions along with an extensive player review needs to be conducted. Are we spending enough on the footy department and do we have the right personnel to take the club forward needs to be considered.

Most importantly we need to stare each of the players in the eye and be confident they want to be part of another flag? If some of them don't have that hunger then we need to facilitate their departure.

[ratsmac]

Resting on your laurels. I've heard this cliche belted out since under 14's. Well we epitomize the very meaning of the cliche. The 2016 premiership is just that, it's the 2016 premiership. That holds as much significance as the 2007 Geelong premiership or 2004 Port premiership. They are all just a part of history. 2017 is a different season and I feel the players just expected wins to happen (so did I). Well we have had a rude awakening and I'm afraid to say but I think that the horse has already bolted.

2017 has been a train wreck and we may as well get games into the kids and if players needs ops, do it now. Unfortunately it was no fairytale for Bob, it has been more like a cruel nightmare but when when he wakes up its actually reality.

Some puzzling assistant coaching shuffling after winning the premiership must be assessed as well. If it ain't broke don't fix it comes to mind. We look rudderless at the moment.

As a supporter though, I am forever thankful for the 2016 premiership and it's saved me from a lot of ribbing this year after some disappointing losses.

[always right]

Good summary but disagree with the comment on Webb not having stepped up to take Moyd or Murphy's place. He's shown great form with Footscray as a midfielder and that typically where he's been played when elevated to the seniors. If he's going to take Moyd or Murphy's position it would help if he was played at half back when given his chance. Hopefully that happens in the remainder of the season.

I also feel we've slipped behind other clubs in our game plan. An example is the return to tagging by so many teams which had proven so successful. For some reason we refuse to change our approach and it's been to our detriment. Our fast ball movement seems to have disappeared which has shown up our lack of leg speed, not helped by the poor form of our best line breaker JJ.