Rating our Midfielders

[LostDoggy]

Hunter being overrated IMO. Stops and props and does a dinky 20m kick. He runs hard and finds the ball but I doubt teams care that much as he pre5y much stops team momentum most times.

Libba and Bont and Macrae then Shiel then Gaff for mine. Maclean not far off. If Bont and Libba don't recover from their injuries then Shiel is better than either.

[SlimPickens]

US studies suggest the odds of re-injuring the same knee are relatively low. Studies have shown that the probability of re-tearing a reconstructed ACL is about three to six percent. (Those studies were on the general population, not just football players. But they line up with other findings that suggest the chance of a recurrent injury to the same knee amongst NFL players within two years is about five to six percent.) Meanwhile, the probability of tearing the other knee — or the “native ACL” — is higher, around nine to 12 percent.

“You would think the reconstructed ACL would be more at risk. And it’s really changed our behavior a lot in how we treat these athletes when they return to play,” said Carey. “For example, bracing used to be pretty common after ACL reconstruction. At this point, I guess the question is: which knee do you want to brace? The other knee is actually at a higher risk in general.”


So the conclusion is that patients who've received an ACL reconstruction are about twice as likely to tear their other ACL, as opposed to the reconstructed one.

I believe this lines up with Bob Murphy's, Tony Liberatore's and Tom Liberatore's experiences, for example. Of course players can and do re-tear the same ACL, however this is actually less likely than tearing a non-torn ACL. The study you've cited, is based on non-athletes and improper or inadequate muscle rehabilitation.

Read more at https://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2...QHduaOmzaz2.99

Good info but unfortunately it’s not applicable to AFL, there are numerous studies that show that the rate of same knee reinjury in the AFL is some of the highest in the world.

http://www.upstart.net.au/young-afl-...l-recurrences/


What the research mostly shows is Libba is a better chance to come back stronger second time round, because of his age. Anyways back to the discussion at hand

[GVGjr]

I'd like to see our midfield get back to somewhere near to the 2015/16 standard that had about 9 players rotating through there so given versatility is a strong point for Bevo does that just add a bit more in our efforts to keep Wallis?
Wallis has been effective up forward in a number of games, Dunkley provides some match up difficulties and in some limited examples Williams looks like he has some talent there as well.
I suspect that we need to go hard at adding some depth to our midfield but that they will be required to add value in other positions as well.

[Go_Dogs]

I'd like to see our midfield get back to somewhere near to the 2015/16 standard that had about 9 players rotating through there so given versatility is a strong point for Bevo does that just add a bit more in our efforts to keep Wallis?
Wallis has been effective up forward in a number of games, Dunkley provides some match up difficulties and in some limited examples Williams looks like he has some talent there as well.
I suspect that we need to go hard at adding some depth to our midfield but that they will be required to add value in other positions as well.

I agree with this. Hypothetically, we have Bont, Macrae and Libba as our best 3 inside then McLean, along with runners in Hunter, Suckers. Plenty of guys who can play a role, but wanting a spread of diversity from all over the park.

Bont - 60/40 midfield/forward, ideally he can play with Macrae and Toby, Libba and Williams, type of combos. A very good inside player and someone who is good first or second possession out of the clearance. Probably needs to spend a bit of time in our forward half too.

Macrae - 80/20 midfield/forward. Our best inside player and accumulator. He can play with every combination and is now a more confident goal kicker.

Liberatore - 70/30 midfield/defender. I don't know why, but I wonder if he can begin transitioning to a some time defender with a view to a Matt Boyd role to finish off his career?

Hunter - 80/20 wing/forward.
McLean - 60/40 midfield/forward.
Suckling 70/30 wing/forward or defender.

Forwards who pinch hit
Dahl - 30/70
Dunkley - 30/70
Wallis - 20/80

Defenders who pinch hit
Williams - 20/80
Daniel - 20/80
Crozier - 20/80

We can bat deep.

[GVGjr]

GD, given the decline in Dahlhaus and now he just can't kick goals, do you seem him as primarily a defensive forward who takes a turn through the midfield? Two goals for the season is a damning stat on the contribution he can make up forward if that is now his primary role. It just seems to me that someone wanting a considerable commitment from the club in terms of years and dollars really needs to have a 70% midfield and 30% forward role with us.

[ledge]

I think our midfield just needs a hard nut like Clay Smith was . We have plenty of talent in there but no real scary bull.
Liberatore probably is the missing piece.

[Go_Dogs]

GD, given the decline in Dahlhaus and now he just can't kick goals, do you seem him as primarily a defensive forward who takes a turn through the midfield? Two goals for the season is a damning stat on the contribution he can make up forward if that is now his primary role. It just seems to me that someone wanting a considerable commitment from the club in terms of years and dollars really needs to have a 70% midfield and 30% forward role with us.

Yes, a predominately defensive role that can play high or closer to goals. He's good in and under in the clearances, definitely his best role at AFL level but we have others who are more effective there. I don't think we have anyone who can match his repeat efforts and intensity in the front half which continues to be a skill we seem to underrate in that area. He needs to improve his scoreboard impact to become successful in the role. If we have a bad run with injuries he certainly can play more minutes inside, and otherwise, he still continues to be an important contributor there but not his primary role.

What does this mean for his pay day? No idea. I understand why he wants to get paid - he's been a huge asset to the club from a marketing and membership perspective and being a young player at the time wouldn't have ever had a big pay day. Unfortunately for Dahl, he's currently outside our best 10 players based on his form over the past 2 seasons. I'm sure these are the kind of discussions we are having with his management and teams who need immediate depth and see a bigger role for him are also speaking with his management about.

I hope we keep Dahl because he can get back to being a consistent contributor, but perhaps not as big a role as he'd previously had. Wally in the same boat.

[Happy Days]

GD, given the decline in Dahlhaus and now he just can't kick goals, do you seem him as primarily a defensive forward who takes a turn through the midfield? Two goals for the season is a damning stat on the contribution he can make up forward if that is now his primary role. It just seems to me that someone wanting a considerable commitment from the club in terms of years and dollars really needs to have a 70% midfield and 30% forward role with us.

The more I think about it I see Dahlhaus at Geelong. This might be totally baseless but I don’t think it’s a coincidence that none of him, Redpath, Biggs and Libba have contracts for next year.

[bornadog]

GD, given the decline in Dahlhaus and now he just can't kick goals, do you seem him as primarily a defensive forward who takes a turn through the midfield? Two goals for the season is a damning stat on the contribution he can make up forward if that is now his primary role. It just seems to me that someone wanting a considerable commitment from the club in terms of years and dollars really needs to have a 70% midfield and 30% forward role with us.

He never has kicked many goals

Career Goals

2018	2
2017	13
2016	9
2015	17
2014	17
2013	28
2012	13
2011	11
Career	110

2013 a reasonable return

[Bulldog4life]

The more I think about it I see Dahlhaus at Geelong. This might be totally baseless but I don’t think it’s a coincidence that none of him, Redpath, Biggs and Libba have contracts for next year.

Jack Redpath does.

[Happy Days]

Jack Redpath does.

Wow really? Yikes.

[GVGjr]

He never has kicked many goals

Career Goals

2018	2
2017	13
2016	9
2015	17
2014	17
2013	28
2012	13
2011	11
Career	110

2013 a reasonable return

And that is the reason why I find it difficult to jusitify the years and dollars he is apparently after. Based on the contributions to the thread so far he is regarded as a bit of a depth player in the midfield and a non contributor to the scoreboard as a forward. I like GDs idea of him becoming a more defensive forward but I dont think that will command the tyoe of deal he is after.

[comrade]

Wow really? Yikes.

Cheers, Jason.

[Webby]

Good info but unfortunately it’s not applicable to AFL, there are numerous studies that show that the rate of same knee reinjury in the AFL is some of the highest in the world.

http://www.upstart.net.au/young-afl-...l-recurrences/


What the research mostly shows is Libba is a better chance to come back stronger second time round, because of his age.

This is true. However the study you are referring to concentrated on AFL players and the specifics of AFL players turning pro at 18 years of age. It openly states that the prevalence is skewed towards u/22 players. Particularly for recurrence.

In NFL, players turn pro at around 22. Noting that both Bob Murphy and Tony Liberatore suffered their first reco’s at 24 and their second (to the opposite knee) in their early 30’s, its fair to say that the reconstructed knee held up okay.

Thus the reason I’m bullish about Libba’s chances of having a good career. Recurrences happen more to teens and early 20’s players, rather than the more mature ones.