-
Re: When things aren’t always as they seem
Originally Posted by
Mofra
Johnno expressed concerns about our game plan off the back of the JLT games. Not personnel, gameplan.
As far as I can tell everything he said has come true.
I think our issues are fixable but I really don't think that much can be done mid-season. It will take some analysis and a pre-season of changing strategy to fix our problems - the main issues for mine being ball-retention, pressure on the ball carrier and forwardline efficiency. We still seem to be playing in a similar manner as 2016 and other teams have caught up, changed their style, and gone past us.
This is even more damning for Bevo and the match committee than the results indicate. Our 2015/2016 'Men of Mayhem' game plan has already been vastly improved upon (by Richmond in 2017), completely superseded (by West Coke in 2018) and is now well and truly dead and buried (by all the top 5-6 contenders in 2019, who prioritize retention of the ball and moving it slowly and carefully into F50). The fact that Bevo and his assistants seem to think the 2016 game plan is still relevant today is astounding. Richmond just had a sobering moment that their window with the mosquito small forward fleet has been unceremoniously slammed shut - we are still playing around the edges with an even older and less relevant game plan.
I very much fear Bevo has been exposed as a one-trick pony who has shown a complete and utter inability to adjust and adapt to stay ahead of the curve. He had no answer whatsoever to 3rd man up, he hasn't been able to find any advantage for the team with the recent rule changes, and he has been out-coached most weeks by inferior playing lists in the last 2.5 years. Player development is also clearly a major issue - who has actually improved from pre-season 2017 to today?
I'm leaning towards Bevo and the Dogs parting company sooner rather than later. He was absolutely perfect for the club in 2015-2016 but time waits for nobody.
As for off-season analysis, this is 1.5 years too late. Bevo has allowed the club to drift into the abyss since Oct 2017 (arguably 12 months prior but I'll cut the club some slack just as Hawthorn 2008 and Essendon 1993 can attest when a flag is won 'ahead of time').
"Look at me mate. Look at me. I'm flyin'"
-
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 2 Likes
-
Re: When things aren’t always as they seem
Originally Posted by
bornadog
We had no one else that tall to take on some of the taller forwards, so I guess Macca was trying to fill it. Minson was a better ruckman anyway. At the time I thought Roughead was only just serviceable in that role.
What we would give for someone who is servicable in that role now.
The curse is dead.
-
Re: When things aren’t always as they seem
Originally Posted by
Sedat
This is even more damning for Bevo and the match committee than the results indicate. Our 2015/2016 'Men of Mayhem' game plan has already been vastly improved upon (by Richmond in 2017), completely superseded (by West Coke in 2018) and is now well and truly dead and buried (by all the top 5-6 contenders in 2019, who prioritize retention of the ball and moving it slowly and carefully into F50). The fact that Bevo and his assistants seem to think the 2016 game plan is still relevant today is astounding. Richmond just had a sobering moment that their window with the mosquito small forward fleet has been unceremoniously slammed shut - we are still playing around the edges with an even older and less relevant game plan.
I very much fear Bevo has been exposed as a one-trick pony who has shown a complete and utter inability to adjust and adapt to stay ahead of the curve. He had no answer whatsoever to 3rd man up, he hasn't been able to find any advantage for the team with the recent rule changes, and he has been out-coached most weeks by inferior playing lists in the last 2.5 years. Player development is also clearly a major issue - who has actually improved from pre-season 2017 to today?
I'm leaning towards Bevo and the Dogs parting company sooner rather than later. He was absolutely perfect for the club in 2015-2016 but time waits for nobody.
As for off-season analysis, this is 1.5 years too late. Bevo has allowed the club to drift into the abyss since Oct 2017 (arguably 12 months prior but I'll cut the club some slack just as Hawthorn 2008 and Essendon 1993 can attest when a flag is won 'ahead of time').
An extremely thought provoking post as it magnifies our fall from lofty heights and challenges why rather than offering soft but plausible excuses
I don't think Bevo should be departing the Dogs though and it's not because I feel we owe him more latitude after the flag but I think he is working hard on making changes but just going about it in a confused manner. Just a small part of me thinks he might have gotten a bit drunk after the success of 2016 and he has it in the back of his mind that he has to revolutionize the game rather than just fix some of the leaks. If we narrow his focus and find him some support I think he can return to close to his best
Player development is an interesting topic and one that we are clearly lacking in. Why hasn't our skill level improved and why have so many players just stalled?
Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"
-
Post Thanks / Like - 0 Thanks, 1 Likes
KT31 liked this post
-
Re: When things aren’t always as they seem
Originally Posted by
comrade
And as much as I love CG as a club legend, I’ve got no faith in his ability as a back office manager.
Not sure there’s been much discussion on this previously. How is CG performing since he moved into that role?
-
Re: When things aren’t always as they seem
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
An extremely thought provoking post as it magnifies our fall from lofty heights and challenges why rather than offering soft but plausible excuses
I don't think Bevo should be departing the Dogs though and it's not because I feel we owe him more latitude after the flag but I think he is working hard on making changes but just going about it in a confused manner. Just a small part of me thinks he might have gotten a bit drunk after the success of 2016 and he has it in the back of his mind that he has to revolutionize the game rather than just fix some of the leaks. If we narrow his focus and find him some support I think he can return to close to his best
Player development is an interesting topic and one that we are clearly lacking in. Why hasn't our skill level improved and why have so many players just stalled?
Agree with this. If Bevo is to survive and prosper again as our senior coach, there needs to be a dramatic overhaul of our footy dept akin to what transpired at Geelong at the end of season 2006, when Bomber Thompson at the time was stripped of all external responsibilities and was told in no uncertain terms to focus solely on coaching. That turned out ok for the Cats and for Bomber.
I know he's won a flag but I'm far from 100% sold on Bevo being as good a long-term coach as Bomber. It is 3 consecutive years of failure and only 2 successful years out of 5, which is a negative overall coaching record. There should have been much more heat up to this point but it looks like it is finally coming - if we lose next week it will arrive in spades.
"Look at me mate. Look at me. I'm flyin'"
-
Re: When things aren’t always as they seem
Good posts Sedat.
Next week will be big - Carlton are coming for us and we’re ripe for the picking again.
I’ve been astounded at how our club has meekly accepted the last 3 years of results. No chance Hawthorn, Geelong, West Coast etc sit back as idle as we have. We’ve made no noise, we’ve copped no heat but most of all we’ve made no changes - except to further weaken our list from a playing perspective.
I have no faith we’ll make any changes or hard calls - we’ve shown no indication of this in 3 years. Instead we’ve bickered (Gordon and Alberti which was bloody poor) and used scapegoats (Stringer/Dahlhaus) and sent out mixed messages instead of taken any responsibility or action.
Lose next week and surely the heat comes.
-
Post Thanks / Like - 0 Thanks, 1 Likes
-
Re: When things aren’t always as they seem
Originally Posted by
Sedat
This is even more damning for Bevo and the match committee than the results indicate. Our 2015/2016 'Men of Mayhem' game plan has already been vastly improved upon (by Richmond in 2017), completely superseded (by West Coke in 2018) and is now well and truly dead and buried (by all the top 5-6 contenders in 2019, who prioritize retention of the ball and moving it slowly and carefully into F50). The fact that Bevo and his assistants seem to think the 2016 game plan is still relevant today is astounding. Richmond just had a sobering moment that their window with the mosquito small forward fleet has been unceremoniously slammed shut - we are still playing around the edges with an even older and less relevant game plan.
I very much fear Bevo has been exposed as a one-trick pony who has shown a complete and utter inability to adjust and adapt to stay ahead of the curve. He had no answer whatsoever to 3rd man up, he hasn't been able to find any advantage for the team with the recent rule changes, and he has been out-coached most weeks by inferior playing lists in the last 2.5 years. Player development is also clearly a major issue - who has actually improved from pre-season 2017 to today?
I'm leaning towards Bevo and the Dogs parting company sooner rather than later. He was absolutely perfect for the club in 2015-2016 but time waits for nobody.
As for off-season analysis, this is 1.5 years too late. Bevo has allowed the club to drift into the abyss since Oct 2017 (arguably 12 months prior but I'll cut the club some slack just as Hawthorn 2008 and Essendon 1993 can attest when a flag is won 'ahead of time').
Good post. I can't tolerate us languishing when we clearly have so much talent on our list. A kid like Hunter or Jack would be out and out stars in any other big club, with all the others around them.
You don't develop courage by being happy in your relationships every day. You develop it by surviving difficult times and challenging adversity. ― Epicurus
-
Re: When things aren’t always as they seem
Roughead as a defender reminded me of Lewis Young, got lost all the time. He was also very slow, too easy to outmark on the lead. He's a good contested mark when it's bombed in and he has time to get into position, but is easily exposed
If you kicked five goals and Tom Boyd kicked five goals, Tom Boyd kicked more goals than you.
Formerly gogriff
-
Re: When things aren’t always as they seem
Originally Posted by
boydogs
Roughead as a defender reminded me of Lewis Young, got lost all the time. He was also very slow, too easy to outmark on the lead. He's a good contested mark when it's bombed in and he has time to get into position, but is easily exposed
Roughead not unlike Dahlhaus has shown how much easier it is to fit into a potential GF team in Collingwood being a much settled side than the WB. I will always remember Roughy’s courageous efforts in our 2016 Premiership win after coming back from a serious eye injury in the Prelim final.
-
Post Thanks / Like - 0 Thanks, 1 Likes
-
Re: When things aren’t always as they seem
Originally Posted by
Nuggety Back Pocket
Roughead not unlike Dahlhaus has shown how much easier it is to fit into a potential GF team in Collingwood being a much settled side than the WB. I will always remember Roughy’s courageous efforts in our 2016 Premiership win after coming back from a serious eye injury in the Prelim final.
I'd argue that Dahlhaus hasn't made a lot of difference to Geelong who could easily cover him but if the Pies were to lose Roughead I think they would struggle.
Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"
-
Re: When things aren’t always as they seem
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
I'd argue that Dahlhaus hasn't made a lot of difference to Geelong who could easily cover him but if the Pies were to lose Roughead I think they would struggle.
He seems to compliment Moore and they work well together.
FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.
-
Re: When things aren’t always as they seem
Happened to catch 'On The Couch' last night and there were a couple of curious observations about us that gave pause for thought.
First, Roos - and I'm not suggesting he's the oracle he thinks he is - commented that our style of play means the Bulldogs "always give you a chance", except he wasn't talking about us he was talking about our opponents and our propensity to over-share the football.
If opposition coaches share that view, it suggests even when we're ascendant in a contest the other mob always feels they're half a show and if they make some smart adjustments the tide can turn fairly quickly, which frankly correlates with a number of jekyll-and-hyde performances this year where we've played a strong early hand but been reeled in and overrun.
This speaks fundamentally to our game style, its merits, and our ability to execute it.
The second and more curious tidbit came from a discussion about Fremantle under Lyon and the dramatic extent to which they've turned over their list since the end of 2016, with just 12 players remaining since then, the lowest player retention rate in the league.
That's nice for Ross, but look who sits equal second ...
Consider Picken and Boyd who I assume were factored in as players no longer there despite the fact we began the season with both on the list, and we might be potentially higher, perhaps highest of all.
Club hierarchy's quick to assert we're a very different team to 2016 and we're leveraged into a deep rebuild, and on one hand they're right, we're obviously retooling.
On the other hand that graph tells very different story relative to the rest of the comp.
So how do you perform a comprehensive rebuild with the equal second most players still on your list across the past 3 years?
BORDERLINE FLYING
-
Post Thanks / Like - 0 Thanks, 1 Likes
-
Re: When things aren’t always as they seem
Originally Posted by
Rocket Science
Club hierarchy's quick to assert we're a very different team to 2016 and we're leveraged into a deep rebuild, and on one hand they're right, we're obviously retooling.
On the other hand that graph tells very different story relative to the rest of the comp.
So how do you perform a comprehensive rebuild with the equal second most players still on your list across the past 3 years?
If you look at the graph more closely right up to Port Adelaide the difference is about 3 or 4 players, or one per year - that is 13 teams are about the same. We only have 12 players left from the premiership team - we are a different team and you cant compare this team to that.
FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.
-
Re: When things aren’t always as they seem
Something that seems not what it is, are skills. Often people on this forum complain about our skills, however looking at the stats:
We are currently ranked last for Clangers, and first for disposal efficiency. We are also second for Effective Disposals.
FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.
-
Re: When things aren’t always as they seem
Originally Posted by
bornadog
If you look at the graph more closely right up to Port Adelaide the difference is about 3 or 4 players, or one per year - that is 13 teams are about the same. We only have 12 players left from the premiership team - we are a different team and you cant compare this team to that.
Sure, one can't credibly assert we're the same team as back then, but I certainly hadn't expected the majority of the league to have a higher list turnover rate than us, not forgetting that Boyd & Picken likely put us at the head of the pack had they not both retired.
Speaking of turnover or lack thereof, I just noticed this with interest too ...
'Not wasting a minute': Struggling Dees' coaching shake-up
BORDERLINE FLYING