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Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020
Champion Data
It appears Daniel Hoyne has been reading our Cordy vs Trengove thread as well
The Western Bulldogs have the second-best list in the AFL and a young ruck prodigy who will eventually develop into the next Brodie Grundy.
That is the heady prediction from Champion Data’s 18-team list analysis as part of its 2020 AFL Prospectus.
Richmond remains the most dominant force in football according to Champion Data — the best overall list with the game’s leading defence, second-best group of forwards and seventh-best midfield.
But the much-hyped Western Bulldogs not only have a list assessed as the second-best, they have significant scope for improvement.
Champion Data rates young ruckman Tim English on track to become a ruckman of the calibre of dual All-Australian Grundy.
His ball-winning ability and around-the-ground coverage shone in 20 games last year but he still officially ranks below average as a player after only 382 hit-outs for the Dogs in 2020.
Champion Data ranks Jack Macrae, Marcus Bontempelli, Caleb Daniel and Matthew Suckling as elite, with another nine above-average players — Josh Dunkley, Bailey Smith, Jason Johannisen, Patrick Lipinski, Sam Lloyd, Toby McLean, Hayden Crozier, Tom Liberatore and Alex Keath.
Champion Data analyst Daniel Hoyne said even the Dogs’ weaknesses could be quickly addressed this season.
“I still think their weakness is the key defender post,” Hoyne said.
“They conceded the third-most goals to key forwards last year and everyone will say (ex-Adelaide defender) Alex Keath is that man but he’s more of an interceptor than a lockdown defender. If Jackson Trengove or Zaine Cordy can perform that role week-in and week-out they have pretty much got everything else covered.
“English is the spitting image of Grundy from a numbers point of view at the same stage of their careers. If you are a Bulldogs supporter you are pretty excited.”
Collingwood is rated the league’s third-best list, with Greater Western Sydney and West Coast rounding out the top five.
Gold Coast is rated the weakest list — with the worst defence and worst forward group. Carlton was rated the 17th-best given a second-worst defence and worst midfield group.
In a controversial move Geelong’s defence is statistically ranked the third-worst given an even crop that does not rack up huge ranking points.
In the AFL Prospectus, Champion Data acknowledged Geelong’s defence has been the stingiest since 2009.
“Harry Taylor rates above average on our list, but the rest rate average or below average,” the book stated.
“They are not great attacking or intercepting defenders so the individual players find it difficult to generate rating points. These rating points land with Geelong’s midfield and wingers pushing back to help generate the ball movement out of defence.”
Why Doggies fans should be excited in 2020
* The Bulldogs start 2020 with 13 players classified by Champion Data either elite or above-average based on their position – the equal-most of any side.
* The Dogs have 21 players aged 21-25 – the most of any club. They also enter the season with the sixth-least experienced group and the only outfit without a 200-game player. They have plenty of room for growth.
Source: AFL PROSPECTUS
Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"
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Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
* The Dogs have 21 players aged 21-25 – the most of any club. They also enter the season with the sixth-least experienced group and the only outfit without a 200-game player. They have plenty of room for growth.
Source: AFL PROSPECTUS[/I]
The list build has set us up with a solid grouping at the right age to enable us to have a sustained 5 year tilt at the flag. Let's not blow our chance and win at least 1 before 2025.
Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.
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Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020
Originally Posted by
comrade
The list build has set us up with a solid grouping at the right age to enable us to have a sustained 5 year tilt at the flag. Let's not blow our chance and win at least 1 before 2025.
I don't see why we should wait.
There is no reason, with the list we have that we should not win multiple flags before your 2025 deadline.
We really have the best or close to best player from the following drafts
2012 - Macrae
2013 - Bont
2015 - Dunkley
2016 - English
2017 - Naughton
2018 - Bailey Smith
Our time is NOW
Life is to be Enjoyed not Endured
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Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020
Originally Posted by
Bulldog Joe
I don't see why we should wait.
There is no reason, with the list we have that we should not win multiple flags before your 2025 deadline.
We really have the best or close to best player from the following drafts
2012 - Macrae
2013 - Bont
2015 - Dunkley
2016 - English
2017 - Naughton
2018 - Bailey Smith
Our time is NOW
That's what I mean. We have a 5 year window to win flags from now until 2025, let's not blow it.
Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.
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Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020
Originally Posted by
comrade
That's what I mean. We have a 5 year window to win flags from now until 2025, let's not blow it.
This was sentiment in 2017.
Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"
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Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
This was sentiment in 2017.
It shouldn't have been in hindsight.
Morris, Boyd and Murphy all at the tail end of their careers. Culture issues driven by at least 2 players no longer at the club. No genuine ruck option. List was heavily polarised between young and old players rather than a solid grouping in that 'prime' age range.
We're much better positioned in 2020 for a sustained tilt.
Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.
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Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020
Originally Posted by
comrade
It shouldn't have been in hindsight.
Morris, Boyd and Murphy all at the tail end of their careers. Culture issues driven by at least 2 players no longer at the club. No genuine ruck option. List was heavily polarised between young and old players rather than a solid grouping in that 'prime' age range.
We're much better positioned in 2020 for a sustained tilt.
I agree. Having premiership players already will be a huge advantage to our next tilt.
Does anyone else think that GWS might have a climb too far after last years tilt? That would have taken a lot out of them coming from an Elimination Final only to get thumped in the Grand Final.
They say Burt Lancaster has one, but I don't believe them.
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Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
Champion Data
Champion Data analyst Daniel Hoyne said even the Dogs’ weaknesses could be quickly addressed this season.
“I still think their weakness is the key defender post,” Hoyne said.
“They conceded the third-most goals to key forwards last year and everyone will say (ex-Adelaide defender) Alex Keath is that man but he’s more of an interceptor than a lockdown defender. If Jackson Trengove or Zaine Cordy can perform that role week-in and week-out they have pretty much got everything else covered.
Source: AFL PROSPECTUS
Perhaps instead of looking at the whole season, look at the defence in the second half when the players started to gel together as a defensive unit. The story is alot different.
FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.
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Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020
Originally Posted by
bornadog
Perhaps instead of looking at the whole season, look at the defence in the second half when the players started to gel together as a defensive unit. The story is alot different.
To me though this was more of a MC issue, once Dunkley was moved into the midfield more and Trengove into the back line from about round 5 or 6 we started to improve as a team.
Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"
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Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
To me though this was more of a MC issue, once Dunkley was moved into the midfield more and Trengove into the back line from about round 5 or 6 we started to improve as a team.
Either way, we had a solid backline in the second half and didn't concede so many goals. But to blankly just say we had the third worse backline doesn't show the true picture.
FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.
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Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020
Originally Posted by
comrade
It shouldn't have been in hindsight.
Morris, Boyd and Murphy all at the tail end of their careers. Culture issues driven by at least 2 players no longer at the club. No genuine ruck option. List was heavily polarised between young and old players rather than a solid grouping in that 'prime' age range.
We're much better positioned in 2020 for a sustained tilt.
I can't agree on this point. To say so indicates we fluked it in 2016. I think most Western Bulldogs supporters realise more than most how difficult it is to win a flag but we were super competitive in 2015 and played brilliantly well in 2016. I'm not necessarily saying we should have won another flag straight away but we should have been vastly more competitive in 2017 and 2018.
Being complacent with our list management was one of the reasons but the way we handled success was the real challenge
I look at Richmond and ask the question of where our membership numbers would be now if we had backed up 2016 with a top 5 finish in 2017 and we had the list to do it.
Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"
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Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
I can't agree on this point. To say so indicates we fluked it in 2016. I think most Western Bulldogs supporters realise more than most how difficult it is to win a flag but we were super competitive in 2015 and played brilliantly well in 2016. I'm not necessarily saying we should have won another flag straight away but we should have been vastly more competitive in 2017 and 2018.
Being complacent with our list management was one of the reasons but the way we handled success was the real challenge
I look at Richmond and ask the question of where our membership numbers would be now if we had backed up 2016 with a top 5 finish in 2017 and we had the list to do it.
From the outside looking in yeah we had the players but some didn’t have the drive or thought they were just going to carry on, let’s face it, a club win it’s second flag in 70odd years, some young players got caught up in the hype, we were a team and had to be all in to get it, we couldn’t afford for players to lose their way, sadly some did.
I believe although our list is younger but due to some experiencing 2016 and the aftermath we have a lot more maturity in the group than 2017.
We were compared to the hawks flag in 2008? I think its Pretty similar in that we won one early and now we are coming of age.
Bring back the biff
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Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020
I dont understabd how a teammate could look at Bob Murphy (and others but Bob, just because he is Bob) knowing he missed out on playing in 2016 and not bother to back up in 2017. For mine that's what was really disappointing about 2017.
Bob won't be at the reunion with his own medal and that's a real shame.
They say Burt Lancaster has one, but I don't believe them.
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Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020
Originally Posted by
Twodogs
I dont understabd how a teammate could look at Bob Murphy (and others but Bob, just because he is Bob) knowing he missed out on playing in 2016 and not bother to back up in 2017. For mine that's what was really disappointing about 2017.
Bob won't be at the reunion with his own medal and that's a real shame.
There are a few parts to this, one of them is giving the guys like Bob who missed out the best chance to remedy that, the second part is the self drive to say I want another crack at the ultimate prize from a footy perspective and the last one might be that I just want to be the best I can and enjoy this ride with my team mates as a long as I can
Sadly it appears a number of players seemed to have said to themselves I'll sit and hope others drag us into the finals and I'll get serious then.
Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"
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Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
There are a few parts to this, one of them is giving the guys like Bob who missed out the best chance to remedy that, the second part is the self drive to say I want another crack at the ultimate prize from a footy perspective and the last one might be that I just want to be the best I can and enjoy this ride with my team mates as a long as I can
Sadly it appears a number of players seemed to have said to themselves I'll sit and hope others drag us into the finals and I'll get serious then.
For me footy (and sport generally) is all about sharing things with your mates-there is no better time than those first few minutes in the rooms with your mates after a win-that's what it's all about. Otherwise you''d just play tennis or golf.
Bob didn't end up having a great season in 2017 but I like to think that if I was one of his teammates then I would be fanatical in my preparation for 2017 to give him a chance to play in a premiership after all he had done for the club. And because he is *!*!*!*!ing Bob Murphy man!
They say Burt Lancaster has one, but I don't believe them.
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