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  1. #16
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    There are a few parts to this, one of them is giving the guys like Bob who missed out the best chance to remedy that, the second part is the self drive to say I want another crack at the ultimate prize from a footy perspective and the last one might be that I just want to be the best I can and enjoy this ride with my team mates as a long as I can

    Sadly it appears a number of players seemed to have said to themselves I'll sit and hope others drag us into the finals and I'll get serious then.
    I will always believe that the Matt Boyd concussion and protracted recovery was the single most important reason we fell away in 2017. Never gets mentioned and basically ended his career - by the time he had fully recovered and was playing good footy the season was shot and his retirement cards had been marked...should never have happened. Great leader.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  2. #17
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    I can't agree on this point. To say so indicates we fluked it in 2016. I think most Western Bulldogs supporters realise more than most how difficult it is to win a flag but we were super competitive in 2015 and played brilliantly well in 2016. I'm not necessarily saying we should have won another flag straight away but we should have been vastly more competitive in 2017 and 2018.

    Being complacent with our list management was one of the reasons but the way we handled success was the real challenge

    I look at Richmond and ask the question of where our membership numbers would be now if we had backed up 2016 with a top 5 finish in 2017 and we had the list to do it.
    I agree. In defence though, I gave them a fee pass for 17 and 18 and really only became passionate and dirty on them in 2019. I can only imagine what the mood was around the club with the lifting of the curse and finally breaking through.

    The other point I would make is that its easier to win a flag against the odds than to do so when expectations demand it and I think this played into our 2017/18/19 performances.

  3. #18
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by FrediKanoute View Post
    I agree. In defence though, I gave them a fee pass for 17 and 18 and really only became passionate and dirty on them in 2019. I can only imagine what the mood was around the club with the lifting of the curse and finally breaking through.

    The other point I would make is that its easier to win a flag against the odds than to do so when expectations demand it and I think this played into our 2017/18/19 performances.
    This is probably one of the reasons why we aren't a really strong club, as supporters and as a club we just don't have the hunger for sustained success. Twodogs is correct when he said the other day he doesn't understand how easy it was for team mates to let Murphy and a few others down the following season. To me it's an indication of some players being selfish and not worrying about their team mates and that that we enjoyed the trappings of success for too long.
    Richmond had a long drought and have been competitive for 3 straight years and we dropped off almost straight away.

    There is a lesson to learn there.
    I like the fact that we are regarded as a genuine contender this year as it removes some of the excuses we can offer up.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  4. #19
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    This is probably one of the reasons why we aren't a really strong club, as supporters and as a club we just don't have the hunger for sustained success. Twodogs is correct when he said the other day he doesn't understand how easy it was for team mates to let Murphy and a few others down the following season. To me it's an indication of some players being selfish and not worrying about their team mates and that that we enjoyed the trappings of success for too long.
    Richmond had a long drought and have been competitive for 3 straight years and we dropped off almost straight away.

    There is a lesson to learn there.
    I like the fact that we are regarded as a genuine contender this year as it removes some of the excuses we can offer up.
    We weren't the dominant team up to August in 2016. We simply peaked at the right time - 5 best 22 players coming back for the elimination final is easily overlooked.

    Richmond had a sustained finals run for years and only missed out once leading up to their 2017 season. Different stages of development. We're structured much better now for a sustained run than we were in 2016, and the fact we went out and got mature bookends last trade period indicates the club thinks the window is now wide open.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

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  6. #20
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    This is probably one of the reasons why we aren't a really strong club, as supporters and as a club we just don't have the hunger for sustained success. Twodogs is correct when he said the other day he doesn't understand how easy it was for team mates to let Murphy and a few others down the following season. To me it's an indication of some players being selfish and not worrying about their team mates and that that we enjoyed the trappings of success for too long.
    Richmond had a long drought and have been competitive for 3 straight years and we dropped off almost straight away.

    There is a lesson to learn there.
    I like the fact that we are regarded as a genuine contender this year as it removes some of the excuses we can offer up.

    Here are the latest odds

    2020 AFL Premiership

    Richmond $5.00
    West Coast $6.00
    Collingwood $8.00
    GWS $9.00
    Brisbane $10
    Western Bulldogs $11
    Geelong $12
    Hawthorn $15
    Melbourne $26
    Essendon $29
    St Kilda $29
    North Melbourne $34
    Port Adelaide $34
    Adelaide $41
    Sydney $41
    Carlton $51
    Fremantle $51
    Gold Coast $251

    https://www.bettingpro.com.au/afl-pr...p-betting-odds

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  8. #21
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Dogs defeated Richmond, GWS and Brisbane in 2019. Should have done the same with Collingwood. It is not talent that is the lacking.

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  10. #22
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog4life View Post
    Here are the latest odds

    2020 AFL Premiership

    Richmond $5.00
    West Coast $6.00
    Collingwood $8.00
    GWS $9.00
    Brisbane $10
    Western Bulldogs $11
    Geelong $12
    Hawthorn $15
    Melbourne $26
    Essendon $29
    St Kilda $29
    North Melbourne $34
    Port Adelaide $34
    Adelaide $41
    Sydney $41
    Carlton $51
    Fremantle $51
    Gold Coast $251

    https://www.bettingpro.com.au/afl-pr...p-betting-odds
    Worth an Ayrton Senna I would think!

  11. #23
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog4life View Post
    Here are the latest odds

    2020 AFL Premiership

    Richmond $5.00
    West Coast $6.00
    Collingwood $8.00
    GWS $9.00
    Brisbane $10
    Western Bulldogs $11
    Geelong $12
    Hawthorn $15
    Melbourne $26
    Essendon $29
    St Kilda $29
    North Melbourne $34
    Port Adelaide $34
    Adelaide $41
    Sydney $41
    Carlton $51
    Fremantle $51
    Gold Coast $251

    https://www.bettingpro.com.au/afl-pr...p-betting-odds
    $11 is super short IMO for our odds. Surprised to see we’re above Geelong

  12. #24
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMahatma View Post
    Worth an Ayrton Senna I would think!
    Put enough on us making the grand final to win enough to buy a grand final ticket with the winnings is the go I reckon.
    They say Burt Lancaster has one, but I don't believe them.

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  14. #25
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Plenty of Media Street going on about us this pre-season. I hope we are better prepared for the Pies in R1 than we were for the Giants in the EF last year.

    The free PR is nice but talk is cheap.
    "Look at me mate. Look at me. I'm flyin'"

  15. #26
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by AshMac View Post
    $11 is super short IMO for our odds. Surprised to see we’re above Geelong
    That puts us 6th favourites, which is where a lot of people see us finishing (many have us in the top 4).
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

  16. #27
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Richmond $5.00
    West Coast $6.00
    Collingwood $8.00
    GWS $9.00
    Brisbane $10
    Western Bulldogs $11
    Geelong $12
    Hawthorn $15


    That 8 looks about right to me but there usually is a bolter.

  17. #28
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    Dogs defeated Richmond, GWS and Brisbane in 2019. Should have done the same with Collingwood. It is not talent that is the lacking.
    Well lets hope with another year of experience we can take the next step.
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  18. #29
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    To me it's an indication of some players being selfish and not worrying about their team mates and that that we enjoyed the trappings of success for too long.

    Richmond had a long drought and have been competitive for 3 straight years and we dropped off almost straight away.
    So.

    Richmond have built this 'thing' where it is all about creating stories together and drawing on things from outside of footy and it seems the players have all bought in. They also have a facility where they have 'everything' yet somehow the players are still involved in creating the place/space - the new little mindfulness/yoga place they have built (well, I think Kamdyn McIntosh has primarily built) in some corner of Punt Rd is an example).

    Now, I'm not saying we don't have this...but it just seems STRONG at the Tiges. Even the Rance stuff has been barely a blip amongst the players...certainly in 2016 there was the narrative around the kids book that Bevo was aligning to the journey of the season (I forget which one it was but it is all through the Flanagan book)...I wonder what story our players believe in now??? With the creating the environment/space, well...we all love the tree stump that is used to break the ice story...what else is there? How involved are they all? Does any of this stuff even matter?

    I guess to go all Collingwood when you watch that docco they did last year and Grundy says he couldn't disagree any more with the idea that if hard work hasn't got you the result then you have to work harder...and the AFL PA stats show that the teams with the lowest recorded player/club contact hours have won the past two premierships, well...

    This stuff is hard.

    You can't coach effort - the players need to bring that. But you can encourage an environment where the players are 'happy' and 'relaxed' and determined to be seen by the collective as valuable (which leads to on-field effort and off-field 'consistency'). I think.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

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  20. #30
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    So.

    Richmond have built this 'thing' where it is all about creating stories together and drawing on things from outside of footy and it seems the players have all bought in. They also have a facility where they have 'everything' yet somehow the players are still involved in creating the place/space - the new little mindfulness/yoga place they have built (well, I think Kamdyn McIntosh has primarily built) in some corner of Punt Rd is an example).

    Now, I'm not saying we don't have this...but it just seems STRONG at the Tiges. Even the Rance stuff has been barely a blip amongst the players...certainly in 2016 there was the narrative around the kids book that Bevo was aligning to the journey of the season (I forget which one it was but it is all through the Flanagan book)...I wonder what story our players believe in now??? With the creating the environment/space, well...we all love the tree stump that is used to break the ice story...what else is there? How involved are they all? Does any of this stuff even matter?

    I guess to go all Collingwood when you watch that docco they did last year and Grundy says he couldn't disagree any more with the idea that if hard work hasn't got you the result then you have to work harder...and the AFL PA stats show that the teams with the lowest recorded player/club contact hours have won the past two premierships, well...

    This stuff is hard.

    You can't coach effort - the players need to bring that. But you can encourage an environment where the players are 'happy' and 'relaxed' and determined to be seen by the collective as valuable (which leads to on-field effort and off-field 'consistency'). I think.
    While I agree that you essentially can't coach effort what I think we did particularly poorly in 2017 and 18 was manage the consequences of some players not bringing an A grade effort to the game. I'm not sure if it was because we didn't want to confirm what many in the media were speculating on at the time or if we just thought a few of the players would just snap out of it but whatever way I look at it we missed an opportunity to address it during the season.
    At the end of 2017, we made an example of Stringer and we then had a couple of players leave at the end of 2018 and after doing all that we made the finals in 2019.
    Dropping players for bad form or effort is easy and I'm not sure we were prepared to make the hard decisions for a couple of seasons

    You've made an excellent point and the challenge for us is to work out what we can do to close the gap the Tigers appear to have over a few clubs
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

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