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05-05-2021, 01:08 PM
#151
Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021
Originally Posted by
Mofra
de Koning, who worries me more than McGovern
Absolutely agree.
Life is to be Enjoyed not Endured
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05-05-2021, 01:09 PM
#152
Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021
Tall guy on the fringe? Yeah that worries me.
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05-05-2021, 01:47 PM
#153
Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021
Originally Posted by
mjp
I don't think it's zero leeway.
I DO think it's zero leeway with regards whatever caused him to get dropped last year - people keep telling me it's competitiveness and defensive decision making so let's go with that...
I suspect skill errors etc don't phase the coaches too much but that he's on a short leash with regards 'other stuff'.
Is dropping someone the only way to teach them? Cause with Young it went from “grabbed the opportunity with both hands” to “dropped” in the space of a week.
Clearly we don’t know what’s expected or the full story but it looks like the axe falls quicker for some players than others.
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05-05-2021, 02:14 PM
#154
Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021
Originally Posted by
MrMahatma
Is dropping someone the only way to teach them? Cause with Young it went from “grabbed the opportunity with both hands” to “dropped” in the space of a week.
Of course not.
But with every player it works 'best' when you are working to a plan.
I am only projecting here but given other players - as you acknowledge - seem to have a longer leash than others, I suspect that in the case of Young he in some way 'broke faith' with something he had reached 'never again' stage with.
Sometimes players do 'well' - but for the good of themselves AND the understanding of the team, they need to be left out because they have not upheld their end of the bargain re- 'footy character' type behaviour. Is that what has happened here? I have no idea (how could I) but I'm not hearing about any mass revolt from the players about selection integrity...
As for the "grabbed his opportunity" comments - I mean, whatever. If we took Bevo at his word for everything he said at a presser well we'd all be going crazy.
What should I tell her? She's going to ask.
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05-05-2021, 02:48 PM
#155
Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021
Originally Posted by
mjp
Of course not.
But with every player it works 'best' when you are working to a plan.
I am only projecting here but given other players - as you acknowledge - seem to have a longer leash than others, I suspect that in the case of Young he in some way 'broke faith' with something he had reached 'never again' stage with.
Sometimes players do 'well' - but for the good of themselves AND the understanding of the team, they need to be left out because they have not upheld their end of the bargain re- 'footy character' type behaviour. Is that what has happened here? I have no idea (how could I) but I'm not hearing about any mass revolt from the players about selection integrity...
As for the "grabbed his opportunity" comments - I mean, whatever. If we took Bevo at his word for everything he said at a presser well we'd all be going crazy.
The timing of the demotion of Young is what aggrieves me the most.
By anyone's measure he played a pretty reasonable game against Bris, his first game for quite a while. He defended well and took a number of strong intercept marks which is something our defence isn't great at. His kicking was 'safe' and whilst he was caught out defending 'high' a couple of times it seems this is how we defend so at times you're going to get burnt.
The following week Lewis played as a defender and took turns in the ruck... which was surprising given English was also in the team, but given GC didn't have a heap of talls in their team we probably wanted to try and stretch their defence. In the first half we kept GC to just one goal so the defensive group did extremely well, so you could only assume Lewis did a reasonable job. In the second half we did give up a number of goals, but my recollection of these was that this was as a result of some very aggressive & well executed kicking through the middle of the ground that caught a high defending team out of position, but I can't remember that Young was the only one caught out or the defender to blame in this situation... maybe he was and I just can't see it, but it seems strange to me that after a 10 goal win we drop a developing key defender for someone who doesn't have the same athletic profile and who has struggled previously as a key defender when we are clearly lacking someone of Young's athletic capabilities in our team.
But as is always #inbevowetrust
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05-05-2021, 03:15 PM
#156
Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021
The fact that Young was given his chance before Cordy was surely shows that the MC do have a preference for Young's athletic profile. His GC game was terrible (just non-competitive) and his game after the GC game at VFL level was woeful too. The gap between his best and worst is enormous.
Given how much discussion out list management thread has about finding a KPD and the fact list management team ask about KPDs every trade period, almost everyone is on the same page regarding concerns over a second KPD.
Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers
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05-05-2021, 03:29 PM
#157
Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021
Originally Posted by
Mofra
The fact that Young was given his chance before Cordy was surely shows that the MC do have a preference for Young's athletic profile. His GC game was terrible (just non-competitive) and his game after the GC game at VFL level was woeful too. The gap between his best and worst is enormous.
Given how much discussion out list management thread has about finding a KPD and the fact list management team ask about KPDs every trade period, almost everyone is on the same page regarding concerns over a second KPD.
Was it really that bad?
Surely we had to back him in... I’ve been critical of him previously, but dropping him the way we did does nothing for his (or our back 6-7’s) development
Playing 2nd ruck that day was also very strange (though perhaps an indication that he’d already been dropped)
Float Along - Fill Your Lungs
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05-05-2021, 03:46 PM
#158
Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021
I went back and watched a bit of the Brisbane game and those intercepts he took, and that run down of Zac Bailey. Man, that was some impressive stuff. Cordy would need roller skates to keep up in the same scenario.
I get he's laconic, is prone to brain fades with positioning etc, but the amount of doubt and anxiety he must feel out there knowing he's on a razor's edge must make it really tough to play with freedom and confidence. The way we've developed him as a player leaves a lot to be desired. Not everyone is an honest battler, some need time and nurturing and patience.
Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.
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05-05-2021, 03:47 PM
#159
Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021
Originally Posted by
The Pie Man
Was it really that bad?
Surely we had to back him in... I’ve been critical of him previously, but dropping him the way we did does nothing for his (or our back 6-7’s) development
Playing 2nd ruck that day was also very strange (though perhaps an indication that he’d already been dropped)
English didn't go into the ruck until the second half IIRC. Lewie has actually played decent VFL games as a ruck/forward (esp in 2019) so he's no mug in the ruck. I actually didn't think he was too bad in the middle, but a complete non-entity as a defender that game.
Everyone wants Lewie to succeed but if he is struggling to be the back-up option as the no 2 KPD in a team screaming out for a semi-competent KPD we have acknowledge there is a problem with his current output. Ditto Cordy who was fourth in line once the pre-season dust had settled (Keath, Gardner, and Lewie ahead of him).
Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers
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05-05-2021, 03:52 PM
#160
Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021
Originally Posted by
comrade
I went back and watched a bit of the Brisbane game and those intercepts he took, and that run down of Zac Bailey. Man, that was some impressive stuff. Cordy would need roller skates to keep up in the same scenario.
I get he's laconic, is prone to brain fades with positioning etc, but the amount of doubt and anxiety he must feel out there knowing he's on a razor's edge must make it really tough to play with freedom and confidence. The way we've developed him as a player leaves a lot to be desired. Not everyone is an honest battler, some need time and nurturing and patience.
The amount of rope Gardner was given last year was absurd. While he did improve in that area his toolkit outside of getting a hand in on a contest is still pretty ordinary. I just can't work out why we don't given Young a really long run at the top level, this seems like the perfect time. I just don't understand it at all. I'm not that against Cordy, I think he could play a role in the team, he's just not a KPD.
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05-05-2021, 03:55 PM
#161
Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021
I'm not comparing the talents of Lewis Young and Brian Lake/Harris but isn't it interesting the different coaching approaches to their early careers. Lake used to be regularly lambasted at media conferences by Rodney Eade including (memorably) the occasion where he allowed Drew Petrie to kick 5(?) in the first quarter. But he wasn't dropped. His first 50 games were nothing like his later ones - they never screamed 'future Norm Smith medallist' did they. His mistakes were regularly pointed out (in a way I often thought was too harsh) but he must have absorbed the criticism and kept learning.
I guess I wonder why with some players it seems that their learning and development in their roles can't still continue while they remain in the team. Wouldn't Lewy learn a helluva lot more against the best opposition than he seems to in a very much lower standard VFL and wouldn't we get a better idea of whether he is the player we hope he might be? It wasn't like he committed a Billy-Gowers-style singlehanded act that nearly cost us a match, in his second match in 2021 perhaps he strayed away from what was asked of him, but are we so rigid that we can't keep encouraging him about the good, pointing out the bad, while giving him a genuine chance to show us what he's made of without that constant self-doubt that the selection decisions must be creating in his mind.
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05-05-2021, 03:56 PM
#162
Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021
Originally Posted by
G-Mo77
The amount of rope Gardner was given last year was absurd. While he did improve in that area his toolkit outside of getting a hand in on a contest is still pretty ordinary. I just can't work out why we don't given Young a really long run at the top level, this seems like the perfect time. I just don't understand it at all. I'm not that against Cordy, I think he could play a role in the team, he's just not a KPD.
As much as Khamis is not a KPD, are we at the point where we put him in (for Cordy) to create a mismatch when the ball is on the deck?
Crozier and Wood have been very good interceptors in the past and when we play our best our mids slow down opposition entries and those two are killing the high ball. Khamis can jump but he can actually accelerate as well. He's been close to selection and do we really lose that much by replacing Cordy, who seems slower this year than we've ever seen him?
Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers
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05-05-2021, 04:04 PM
#163
Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021
I know Young is still not at his peak as a player, but for this week, I want him in and playing on Harry.
If I see Cordy going to Harry, I will ring the TAB and put money on ten goals to Harry.
FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.
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05-05-2021, 04:07 PM
#164
Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021
Originally Posted by
Mantis
He looked really dangerous running under the balls on Friday night didn't he... almost like he was expecting body contact and was getting out of the way of it.
He ran under the ball twice because he was actually trying to lead, but Bont just slammed the ball on his foot and kicked it over everyone's head.
We can't just keep bombing the ball into the 50 and expecting marks from Naughton and Bruce, we have to hit targets.
FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.
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05-05-2021, 04:08 PM
#165
Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021
Originally Posted by
Mofra
As much as Khamis is not a KPD, are we at the point where we put him in (for Cordy) to create a mismatch when the ball is on the deck?
Crozier and Wood have been very good interceptors in the past and when we play our best our mids slow down opposition entries and those two are killing the high ball. Khamis can jump but he can actually accelerate as well. He's been close to selection and do we really lose that much by replacing Cordy, who seems slower this year than we've ever seen him?
Interesting Mofra. I'd personally like to see an experiment like this.