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14-06-2022, 07:49 PM
#271
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
Originally Posted by
comrade
I just want someone on the list that we’ll actually play in the role of 2nd ruck/forward to partner with English. As long as they’re decent, I really don’t care if it’s Sweet or someone else. What is pretty clear is the coaching group don’t think Sweet is up to it and refuse to pick him in that role, so just get someone else in. As you and I both acknowledge, the lack of a genuine 2 man ruck combo has been very problematic and I want the club to fix it by any means possible.
As second ruck this year, after 30 games, Cameron averaged 8 disposals, 4 hitouts and goal. And last year he averaged 8 hitouts.
when first ruck against Sweet he had 11 disposals.
Dismissing Sweet’s ruck ability and refusing to let him develop for a few games as second ruck is one of the factors that seems to have destroyed our season. I hope playing Hannan, and Dunkley and Bont and Khamis and Naughton and anyone else turns out to be the master strategy we need to salvage it this year. I don’t care who rucks next year.
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14-06-2022, 07:50 PM
#272
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
Originally Posted by
bornadog
Do you think he is up to it?
I don't want to see Naughton going up for a ruck duel in the fwd line, or Bont, Dunks, Hannan.
Agree, we must get a proper second ruck who is Fwd/Ruck
How would any of us know? He’s had stuff all chance to settle in and show anything.
Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.
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14-06-2022, 08:00 PM
#273
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
Originally Posted by
comrade
How would any of us know? He’s had stuff all chance to settle in and show anything.
Bevo hasn't rated the ruck ever. He's still stubbornly trying to find ways to play 1 after they removed 3rd man up.
He likes lots of McComb types.
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14-06-2022, 08:15 PM
#274
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
Originally Posted by
comrade
How would any of us know? He’s had stuff all chance to settle in and show anything.
If he was any good, he would be absolutely killing them in the VFL. He would not only be good at tap work (which I think he is), he would be good all over the ground, taking marks, kicking goals up forward etc. But, he hasn't been.
Easy to say Bevo won't play him, but a ruck really has to show something at the lower level.
His development was stifled over the two years of Covid when the VFL only played 10 games.
He is still 24 and has time to develop more.
Originally Posted by
Grantysghost
Bevo hasn't rated the ruck ever. He's still stubbornly trying to find ways to play 1 after they removed 3rd man up.
I am sure if we had the right person, Bevo would play them.
FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.
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14-06-2022, 09:29 PM
#275
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
Originally Posted by
bornadog
If he was any good, he would be absolutely killing them in the VFL. He would not only be good at tap work (which I think he is), he would be good all over the ground, taking marks, kicking goals up forward etc. But, he hasn't been.
Easy to say Bevo won't play him, but a ruck really has to show something at the lower level.
His development was stifled over the two years of Covid when the VFL only played 10 games.
He is still 24 and has time to develop more.
I am sure if we had the right person, Bevo would play them.
If I remember correctly Sweet had 30+ hitouts and over a dozen disposals. Schache was seen as the match winner and Sweet was rated as 4th best for Footscray.
When English was starting I saw a few games when he wasn’t that good. In fact, Young was more reliable at Footscray in those days.
If a player has to be killing it in the vfl we won’t see many new faces.
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15-06-2022, 12:26 AM
#276
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
Originally Posted by
Danjul
If I remember correctly Sweet had 30+ hitouts and over a dozen disposals. Schache was seen as the match winner and Sweet was rated as 4th best for Footscray.
When English was starting I saw a few games when he wasn’t that good. In fact, Young was more reliable at Footscray in those days.
If a player has to be killing it in the vfl we won’t see many new faces.
When talking about why Sweet has not been played historically, why would you look at stats for last week?
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15-06-2022, 01:50 AM
#277
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
Originally Posted by
hujsh
When talking about why Sweet has not been played historically, why would you look at stats for last week?
And ignore the fact Schache kicked five and got something like 16 hit outs as part of the case for playing either of them as the ruck/ forward.......
If Timmy was prepared to play ruck/ forward I'd happily play Sweet or even Martin if fit in the number one ruck role. But it ain't happening.
it's a real shame too, because I've said time and again ruck/ forward is the hardest position to find a decent player for and we literally have a guy who could be the best in the business at it not wanting to play that role - and it's seemingly driving many of us to despair in trying to shoe-horn someone else unsuited into it.
When I think about it, it drives me completely mad because who doesn't want to snag a few and also limit time being belted up in the ruck? Wherever Timmy is getting his advice from is pretty cooked on face value, because he's completely missing the point.
Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.
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15-06-2022, 09:23 AM
#278
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
Originally Posted by
jeemak
And ignore the fact Schache kicked five and got something like 16 hit outs as part of the case for playing either of them as the ruck/ forward.......
If Timmy was prepared to play ruck/ forward I'd happily play Sweet or even Martin if fit in the number one ruck role. But it ain't happening.
it's a real shame too, because I've said time and again ruck/ forward is the hardest position to find a decent player for and we literally have a guy who could be the best in the business at it not wanting to play that role - and it's seemingly driving many of us to despair in trying to shoe-horn someone else unsuited into it.
When I think about it, it drives me completely mad because who doesn't want to snag a few and also limit time being belted up in the ruck? Wherever Timmy is getting his advice from is pretty cooked on face value, because he's completely missing the point.
This really pisses me off. English for mine is hard to like purely because of the barrel he put us over.
I shudder to think what he will demand once he is a free agent. What happens when injuries catch up with him as Jee rightly points out being belted in the ruck? Our salary cap will be cooked big time. ALA Brodie Grundy.
As an aside English stubbornness to play forward would also put off any back up ruckman in coming to our club such as Max Lynch, Cameron, Ceglar etc.
Why would a semi competent ruckman come to our club when
A) Beveridge has a particular player mould in his head
B) English refuses to share the ruck role!
It appears Lobb may be our only option as he hates playing first ruck...but will take a turn as a 2nd ruckman. But I'm afraid when it comes to the pointy end of the season he is yet to stand up.
More of an In Bruges guy?
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15-06-2022, 09:37 AM
#279
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
Originally Posted by
jeemak
When I think about it, it drives me completely mad because who doesn't want to snag a few and also limit time being belted up in the ruck? Wherever Timmy is getting his advice from is pretty cooked on face value, because he's completely missing the point.
From memory his management team is over in WA, Colin Young and Andrew McDougall
More of an In Bruges guy?
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15-06-2022, 10:40 AM
#280
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
Originally Posted by
azabob
This really pisses me off. English for mine is hard to like purely because of the barrel he put us over.
Is this even confirmed?
We've hardly needed encouragement to play English as first and sole ruck. In 2020 we spent half the season resting him while picking him as the only ruck, he'd take centre bounces and immediately wander forward.
If he's making those demands it's because we've led him there, and since Beveridge has tried to avoid the dual ruck setup as much as possible I imagine even if he did make the demand it'd go something like this;
TE: "Hey Bevo you need to play me as main ruck otherwise I'm leaving"
LB "what could've possibly made you think I wasn't going to do that".
JS ": ("
I should leave it alone but you're not right
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15-06-2022, 11:00 AM
#281
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
Originally Posted by
soupman
Is this even confirmed?
We've hardly needed encouragement to play English as first and sole ruck. In 2020 we spent half the season resting him while picking him as the only ruck, he'd take centre bounces and immediately wander forward.
If he's making those demands it's because we've led him there, and since Beveridge has tried to avoid the dual ruck setup as much as possible I imagine even if he did make the demand it'd go something like this;
TE: "Hey Bevo you need to play me as main ruck otherwise I'm leaving"
LB "what could've possibly made you think I wasn't going to do that".
JS ": ("
Beveridge did allude to it in a press conference, that is what I am going on.
But fair call's on how we led him there which is equally as frustrating.
More of an In Bruges guy?
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15-06-2022, 11:08 AM
#282
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
Originally Posted by
azabob
This really pisses me off. English for mine is hard to like purely because of the barrel he put us over.
I shudder to think what he will demand once he is a free agent. What happens when injuries catch up with him as Jee rightly points out being belted in the ruck? Our salary cap will be cooked big time. ALA Brodie Grundy.
As an aside English stubbornness to play forward would also put off any back up ruckman in coming to our club such as Max Lynch, Cameron, Ceglar etc.
Why would a semi competent ruckman come to our club when
A) Beveridge has a particular player mould in his head
B) English refuses to share the ruck role!
It appears Lobb may be our only option as he hates playing first ruck...but will take a turn as a 2nd ruckman. But I'm afraid when it comes to the pointy end of the season he is yet to stand up.
Good post, let me challenge you on a few things
English:
- Has he really put us over a barrel by wanting to play the position he is best suited to? Given his form it seems like he got it right.
We can still play him forward but need to find someone to compliment him rather than the other way around.
- Do we know what sort of coin we have coughed up to keep him? I'd be surprised if it's Grundy like.
Regarding other ruck man potentially coming to our club I suspect we don't chase them as hard as other clubs.
Cameron went to Collingwood to play 2nd fiddle to Grundy so why wouldn't other players back themselves with us and especially given during the trade period there was nothing to suggest English was going to have a huge season?
Ceglar went to Geelong and they have multiple ruck options. With Bruce out for the majority of the season the door was open for him with us.
Lobb is probably the ideal fit at any club with strong first ruck man but it will likely come with a hefty price tag.
We need to change our approach with how we use ruck man, this trade period will tell if Bevo and the MC can exhibit a more flexible approach.
Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"
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15-06-2022, 11:12 AM
#283
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
Originally Posted by
soupman
Is this even confirmed?
We've hardly needed encouragement to play English as first and sole ruck. In 2020 we spent half the season resting him while picking him as the only ruck, he'd take centre bounces and immediately wander forward.
If he's making those demands it's because we've led him there, and since Beveridge has tried to avoid the dual ruck setup as much as possible I imagine even if he did make the demand it'd go something like this;
TE: "Hey Bevo you need to play me as main ruck otherwise I'm leaving"
LB "what could've possibly made you think I wasn't going to do that".
JS ": ("
Can that be correct?
In 2020 English played 18 games. He kicked goals (8) in 6 games. Couldn’t have spent much time on the forward line with those returns could he?
They were short games, he had ordinary year where he showed potential at times. He has improved significantly since then.
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15-06-2022, 11:29 AM
#284
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
It is a shame we have probably the best 2nd ruck/forward in the competition but he either doesn’t want to play there or we have no one better to take the main ruck role. We’re so close to figuring out that part of the ground, yet also miles away it seems.
Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.
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15-06-2022, 11:32 AM
#285
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
Originally Posted by
soupman
Is this even confirmed?
We've hardly needed encouragement to play English as first and sole ruck. In 2020 we spent half the season resting him while picking him as the only ruck, he'd take centre bounces and immediately wander forward.
If he's making those demands it's because we've led him there, and since Beveridge has tried to avoid the dual ruck setup as much as possible I imagine even if he did make the demand it'd go something like this;
TE: "Hey Bevo you need to play me as main ruck otherwise I'm leaving"
LB "what could've possibly made you think I wasn't going to do that".
JS ": ("
The one thing Bevo did do was ask Tim to play forward when Bruce went down. Young went to first ruck, and Tim to forward line. There were a couple of times that I thought the forwards didn't know what they were doing. eg The ball was in the forward pocket, Tim is standing in the goal square, and Hannan is up in the ruck? really dumb.
FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.