So - If everyone is on the same page, Maybe it's in the wrong book?

[Grantysghost]

I guess that's my point. Why is it like that? Why can't we do it?

Turnovers. Too many from us, not causing enough from them.

You only get clean footy like that from centre stoppage or opposition turnovers.

We simply don't put enough pressure on/cause the oppo to fek it up enough either, and clean centre breaks ...well it's a rarity.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Turnovers. Too many from us, not causing enough from them.

You only get clean footy like that from centre stoppage or opposition turnovers.

We simply don't put enough pressure on/cause the oppo to fek it up enough either, and clean centre breaks ...well it's a rarity.

The "unforced" turnovers yesterday were horrendous but we struggle to hit up any leads even when not turning it over like that.

To me it feels like a combination of no real gameplan and lack of movement from players up the ground.

Teams drop numbers back against us and as soon as we're at our defensive 50 we're pretty much always kicking to a contest where we're often outnumbered. We either get out marked or thr ball hits the deck and the oppo cleans it up and bangs it back inside 50 where we're all out of position.

Our forwards don't press hard enough and work together to isolate themselves. Then our mids and wings just seem to be missing. I don't really know why.

I also noticed yesterday how many hack kicks from hawthorn defenders out of our 50 landed right in their laps to start a movement forward. I don't think it's a coincidence. We just never have players in the right part of the ground. Even defending without the ball. The oppo loop it over our heads and we're just running around trying to keep up with an in-flight ball. No wonder we get tired.

[lemmon]

The "unforced" turnovers yesterday were horrendous but we struggle to hit up any leads even when not turning it over like that.

To me it feels like a combination of no real gameplan and lack of movement from players up the ground.

Teams drop numbers back against us and as soon as we're at our defensive 50 we're pretty much always kicking to a contest where we're often outnumbered. We either get out marked or thr ball hits the deck and the oppo cleans it up and bangs it back inside 50 where we're all out of position.

Our forwards don't press hard enough and work together to isolate themselves. Then our mids and wings just seem to be missing. I don't really know why.

I also noticed yesterday how many hack kicks from hawthorn defenders out of our 50 landed right in their laps to start a movement forward. I don't think it's a coincidence. We just never have players in the right part of the ground. Even defending without the ball. The oppo loop it over our heads and we're just running around trying to keep up with an in-flight ball. No wonder we get tired.

It's really hard to tell not being at the ground, but I'd love to know how much of the finger should be pointed at the running defenders who are making decisions and disposing of the footy, versus the half forwards who should be the ones showing for the ball. Jamarra was invisible yesterday - was he not working up to the wings and presenting as an option, or contesting for the dump kick? I know Naughton is playing the traditional centre half forward role this year, but if Marra is ice cold he needs to get on his bike and get the ball in hand.

The same can be said for S Darcy - he's either playing deep or chopping out in the ruck - he should be a guy we're looking to for those dump kicks on a slow play out of our defensive 50.

Hard to tell not being at the ground, it feels like with those two camped forward, we can't spread the small defence and actually take advantage of it. If you're playing undersized key back, congestion is your friend.

I think it's easy to look at the turnover and blame the player who's kicked the footy, but I'd love to know what Bramble and JJ were looking at ahead of them yesterday.

[Grantysghost]

We push an extra up so if the other team plays 6 defenders then we are outnumbered.
Is why the hack kicks are so frustrating. We should be able to work it out of the stoppage with an extra and spread to create the overlap.

It doesnt work any more though.

I noticed we were well beaten in ground ball gets, Hawks were much cleaner below their feet when it mattered.

[bornadog]

I think it's easy to look at the turnover and blame the player who's kicked the footy, but I'd love to know what Bramble and JJ were looking at ahead of them yesterday.

JJ's kicks direct to a Hawks player standing 20 metres away were unforgivable as was his attempted pass to English that hit the ground and Hawks goaled. Jones although played well, also did some stupid things with the ball in hand. These were turnovers no where the HF or wing lines. these were within 50 to 60 metres of goal.

[Sedat]

It's really hard to tell not being at the ground, but I'd love to know how much of the finger should be pointed at the running defenders who are making decisions and disposing of the footy, versus the half forwards who should be the ones showing for the ball.

There was a bit of both. Some of our D50 turnovers were utterly horrendous (would have comfortably fit into Dimma's "shit goal" stat from last week) and others were the end result of a lack of workrate further up the ground to provide an outlet for the D50 rebounders.

[Mofra]

Daniel circa 24 played in his best role maybe does.

What is his best role? If it's in defence a la his AA year - he was about our 5th best defender at VFL level.
Freijah is knocking the door down though.

[bornadog]

What is his best role? If it's in defence a la his AA year - he was about our 5th best defender at VFL level.
Freijah is knocking the door down though.

When does he debut and who does he knock out?

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

We look exhausted and it's only round 8

[bulldogsthru&thru]

It's really hard to tell not being at the ground, but I'd love to know how much of the finger should be pointed at the running defenders who are making decisions and disposing of the footy, versus the half forwards who should be the ones showing for the ball. Jamarra was invisible yesterday - was he not working up to the wings and presenting as an option, or contesting for the dump kick? I know Naughton is playing the traditional centre half forward role this year, but if Marra is ice cold he needs to get on his bike and get the ball in hand.

The same can be said for S Darcy - he's either playing deep or chopping out in the ruck - he should be a guy we're looking to for those dump kicks on a slow play out of our defensive 50.

Hard to tell not being at the ground, it feels like with those two camped forward, we can't spread the small defence and actually take advantage of it. If you're playing undersized key back, congestion is your friend.

I think it's easy to look at the turnover and blame the player who's kicked the footy, but I'd love to know what Bramble and JJ were looking at ahead of them yesterday.

I think yesterday it was a bit of both as there were some shocking turnovers. But I don't think that's the real issue. I think the real issue is further up the ground. Although I must concede that our defenders are both horrible kicks and horrible decision makers so it doesn't help. But maybe it does have to do with what's ahead of them.

Our forwards and mids aren't working hard enough to present themselves to the ball carrier. Maybe it's because we have a tall forward line that we think we'll just win the marking contests? But Marra/Naughton/English always are going for the same marking contest on the wing. Ball hits the deck and the oppo cleans it up with the extra numbers. I must admit I don't know what our mids/wings/small forwards are doing but they're often not in the vicinity. It looks to me that a lot of the smalls are closer to defence looking for the short option but they're really not in an advantageous position. Even when we go the short option, the next kick is always to a pack. We never methodically work the ball up the ground without having a hack kick to a contest.

Whether all this is workrate or gameplan is hard to tell. I'd be curious to hear from Harmes who has come from an excellent system.