WB Game Day V Melbourne - 2021 AAMI Community Series

[bulldogsthru&thru]

What odds we go in with just English and not Martin?

Sadly it just wouldn’t surprise me.

[Jeanette54]

Or neither of them?

Dunks and Bont can handle ruck for us vs Grundy.

It would be an interesting exercise to see what would happen if a team actually set up to concede the ruck duels. It happens every now and then when nobody is nominated for a boundary throw in, or ball up. The result is not always what you might think, ie. the team with the only nominated ruckman wins the ball. I know we appeared to more or less set up that way for short periods of the game, with English resting. But with such a strong midfield is it worth consideration ?

[EasternWest]

It would be an interesting exercise to see what would happen if a team actually set up to concede the ruck duels. It happens every now and then when nobody is nominated for a boundary throw in, or ball up. The result is not always what you might think, ie. the team with the only nominated ruckman wins the ball. I know we appeared to more or less set up that way for short periods of the game, with English resting. But with such a strong midfield is it worth consideration ?

I know AFL is not Southern District reserves but occasionally I'd get forced to ruck and I was such a poor choice for a ruckman (only 6'1" and not athletic) that I wouldn't ruck at all - I'd just rove to the opposition ruckman.

It was surprisingly effective. I remember one game the opposition ruckman got so frustrated he ended up just punching it forward.

Again, I reiterate, Southern 2's is not AFL.

[comrade]

It would be an interesting exercise to see what would happen if a team actually set up to concede the ruck duels. It happens every now and then when nobody is nominated for a boundary throw in, or ball up. The result is not always what you might think, ie. the team with the only nominated ruckman wins the ball. I know we appeared to more or less set up that way for short periods of the game, with English resting. But with such a strong midfield is it worth consideration ?

Again, please don't give anyone ideas

[bulldogsthru&thru]

It would be an interesting exercise to see what would happen if a team actually set up to concede the ruck duels. It happens every now and then when nobody is nominated for a boundary throw in, or ball up. The result is not always what you might think, ie. the team with the only nominated ruckman wins the ball. I know we appeared to more or less set up that way for short periods of the game, with English resting. But with such a strong midfield is it worth consideration ?

Isn’t this what we’ve been doing the past 3 years?

[jeemak]

I think Ryan is more agile/athletic than Fletcher. But yes it’s slim pickings to go and say delist Fletcher for the tiniest hopeful upgrade in Gardner. But this is such classic Bevo. We’d back him in with stuff like this in 2017 and 2018. Unfortunately he’s getting more wrong than right these days.

Which ones?

[mjp]

What odds we go in with just English and not Martin?

If we go with both then we will be very thin elsewhere. I think both ruckman will play but there is no doubt it leaves us ‘skinny’ for runners...

Just a choice that has to be made. Your bench is either one defender, one forward, one inside mid and one outside mid OR it includes a player who is primarily a backup ruckman leaving you one short elsewhere. And yes, you ‘can probably’ cover an injury but with 75 rotations it is more of a decision than most care to acknowledge.

[Go_Dogs]

If we go with both then we will be very thin elsewhere. I think both ruckman will play but there is no doubt it leaves us ‘skinny’ for runners...

Just a choice that has to be made. Your bench is either one defender, one forward, one inside mid and one outside mid OR it includes a player who is primarily a backup ruckman leaving you one short elsewhere. And yes, you ‘can probably’ cover an injury but with 75 rotations it is more of a decision than most care to acknowledge.

We have 47 midfielders though. So will be OK.

Pre season is finally over and the meaningful stuff can start. No excuses now and no more hypothetical. Hope we’re switched on and ready for the long season ahead.

[Before I Die]

If we go with both then we will be very thin elsewhere. I think both ruckman will play but there is no doubt it leaves us ‘skinny’ for runners...

Just a choice that has to be made. Your bench is either one defender, one forward, one inside mid and one outside mid OR it includes a player who is primarily a backup ruckman leaving you one short elsewhere. And yes, you ‘can probably’ cover an injury but with 75 rotations it is more of a decision than most care to acknowledge.

Do we have many players who are solely pigeon holed as defender, forward, inside mid, outside mid, these days? Plus the flexibility of English to play in a key forward post provides the flexibility to swing other key position players between each end of the field. I only see Martin playing first ruck as a problem if he is getting badly beaten, which hopefully will not arise. He is almost alone as a one dimensional payer for us.

Is the primary role of the bench injury backup or rotations for our runners? I’m sure it is a bit of both, but with just 75 rotations I suspect the need for runners dominates. Not sure if this last point supports or diminishes my earlier statements.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Which ones?

Why do you make me accountable for my outlandish statements?

I didn't keep a journal so forgive me for having to take it from the top of my head. But things like:

-Retaining and also playing guys on the list who we all know are not up to it and who subsequently (in the same season they were given multiple games after proving how bad they were) got delisted. Guys like Gowers, Lloyd and I hate to say it, 2020 Dickson.
-He gives multiple games to players and then we never see them again. Butler, Greene, Lynch, Young, Hayes etc. This could be seen as good or bad or out of necessity but it adds to the inconsistent messages being sent.
-Continuing to go with 1 ruck despite it costing us again and again. I know we didn't really have a backup option but it's our own fault for not valuing a solid backup and recruiting one. Now looks whats happening when we finally have.
-Easton Wood forward.
-We recruited Schache, then Bruce whilst switching Naughton forward. Suddenly we have too many talls and not enough defenders.

[Mofra]

If we go with both then we will be very thin elsewhere. I think both ruckman will play but there is no doubt it leaves us ‘skinny’ for runners...

Just a choice that has to be made. Your bench is either one defender, one forward, one inside mid and one outside mid OR it includes a player who is primarily a backup ruckman leaving you one short elsewhere. And yes, you ‘can probably’ cover an injury but with 75 rotations it is more of a decision than most care to acknowledge.

If Naughton doesn't play we don't name a tall replacement, but an extra 'runner/utlity'. Problem solved.
English/Bruce is enough height up forward considering Zont/Dunk (190cm+) will rest up forward and Wallis is a 'stand and mark' player rather than a crumber.

[bornadog]

-Retaining and also playing guys on the list who we all know are not up to it and who subsequently (in the same season they were given multiple games after proving how bad they were) got delisted. Guys like Gowers, Lloyd and I hate to say it, 2020 Dickson.

All our leading goal kickers - I can't see any problems with this.

-He gives multiple games to players and then we never see them again. Butler, Greene, Lynch, Young, Hayes etc.

I have no problem giving young players a go. All those players lost form and couldn't get back in the team.

Continuing to go with 1 ruck despite it costing us again and again.

In 2019 Tom Boyd retired for one reason or another and would have made a great duet with English. WE brought in Sweet as a rookie, but he just hasn't kicked on. There was no one else so we recruited Martin. Not easy to recruit ready made rucks.

-Easton Wood forward.
-We recruited Schache, then Bruce whilst switching Naughton forward. Suddenly we have too many talls and not enough defenders.

Easton Wood, one and a half games forward. We needed some one up there, the coach tried him and it didn't work. I like a coach who tried different things to win games. I can't see an issue here.

Schache is worth pursuing with, we need backup KPPs

[mjp]

If Naughton doesn't play we don't name a tall replacement, but an extra 'runner/utlity'. Problem solved.
English/Bruce is enough height up forward considering Zont/Dunk (190cm+) will rest up forward and Wallis is a 'stand and mark' player rather than a crumber.

Yes...but setting this week aside, Naughton is going to play 'eventually'.

I personally think only 2 out of Martin, English and Bruce/Schache (take your pick) should play. If English is now a key forward come ruckman, fine...we don't need 3 of those so Bruce misses.

I don't think we WILL do that but something has got to give. And with only 75 rotations, using them for key forwards is just plain dumb.

[comrade]

Yes...but setting this week aside, Naughton is going to play 'eventually'.

I personally think only 2 out of Martin, English and Bruce/Schache (take your pick) should play. If English is now a key forward come ruckman, fine...we don't need 3 of those so Bruce misses.

I don't think we WILL do that but something has got to give. And with only 75 rotations, using them for key forwards is just plain dumb.

Doesn't playing Naughton in defence solve this?

Martin rucks 80%, English plays forward 80% and Bruce is our stay at home tall forward. This gives us the flexibility of bringing in another small.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

All our leading goal kickers - I can't see any problems with this.


I have no problem giving young players a go. All those players lost form and couldn't get back in the team.



In 2019 Tom Boyd retired for one reason or another and would have made a great duet with English. WE brought in Sweet as a rookie, but he just hasn't kicked on. There was no one else so we recruited Martin. Not easy to recruit ready made rucks.




Easton Wood, one and a half games forward. We needed some one up there, the coach tried him and it didn't work. I like a coach who tried different things to win games. I can't see an issue here.

Schache is worth pursuing with, we need backup KPPs

I love your glass half full approach BAD

All our leading goal kickers - I can't see any problems with this.

I don't have a problem with the initial recruitment of these players. It's the final years of their tenure with us that bothers me. They were clearly finished. And the end of season delistings prove that Bevo thought the same. Yet he continued to play them for multiple stints last year, despite them clearly showing they were incapable of playing at the level required. Gowers stupidly nearly cost us the GC game which would have cost us finals. We can't toy around with list spots and senior games.

I have no problem giving young players a go. All those players lost form and couldn't get back in the team.

Did they lose form? We'd have no idea if they lost form as we heard nothing about our reserves games last year. That may just be an assumption purely because they weren't played in the seniors. Anyway, I'm fine with players being given a go but there has to be some merit to it. Each game of AFL counts and if a player isn't ready, he's better off working up form in the reserves first. Was there really merit for these guys to play considering they were effectively never seen again after their initial stint? And if there was merit, how could they fall of the radar so badly that guys like Lloyd and Gowers were given games ahead of them despite them being delisted at the end of the year?

In 2019 Tom Boyd retired for one reason or another and would have made a great duet with English. WE brought in Sweet as a rookie, but he just hasn't kicked on. There was no one else so we recruited Martin. Not easy to recruit ready made rucks.

I take your point but Boyds issues didn't come from nowhere. We should have had some contingency in place given how raw English was/is. Fact is Bevo just doesn't rate the ruck so we didn't place importance in this area. I think the game just got away from him here and he's finally relented.

Easton Wood, one and a half games forward. We needed some one up there, the coach tried him and it didn't work. I like a coach who tried different things to win games. I can't see an issue here.

Schache is worth pursuing with, we need backup KPPs

See, this is the problem. Wood did a whole preseason up forward. Months spent training up forward. Then after a one game sh*t show, Bevo pulls the pin on the whole plan. You've got to then wonder what the hell he is doing at training when he rips up his playbook after 1 game. If you have faith in your thinking, back it in for longer than 5 minutes.

I agree Schache is worth pursuing with. No problems there. But Bevo doesn't want to play him and instead persists with a guy who has shown even less in what is supposed to be his peak years.I have no problem with the recruitment of Bruce either. The problem for me is more around how our planning is done around list balance.