Time to pull the Liam Jones move.

[MrMahatma]

I think it’s a case of Keath and Gardner as our 2 key defenders and the rest is makeshift. I still hold out hope for Young, but if he doesn’t come good and we were playing Richmond or Geelong in a final... how’s our defence looking?

[soupman]

Bruce cannot go back. His go to move is "launch himself at the footy and hope he atleast creates a spillage". He does that in defence and it's gonna be carnage.

He actually reads the flight of the ball somewhat poorly imo, would easily be the least agile of the key defenders in the league (maybe Carlisle and Roughead are worse but both are significantly better in the air).

He's actually been pretty good this year, his most recent half is his only bad half so far where I felt he reverted to 2020 form/effort (and trust me I am super critical of him). We got him to play key forward, and I just don't see it with him as a defender.

As for Schache back, well he won't make it as a key forward. There is no key forward in the league that has made it without some kind of tenacity or intensity. Schache is a very neat player, and I really like so many of his attributes, but he will never make it as a key forward. He also is a useless ruck, so down back he goes. It doesn't really play to his strengths, but we might as well give him a chance at saving his career instead of just watching him dominate VFL for the next 18 months.

[macca]

Grimes got into Bruce head last game , and made him very Wary with all the holding , snipping and being dragged away by the play . It’s dirty but it worked ... with the missed marks . Bruce was always wary of that body contact. He needs to work out how to play this type of player and just go hard all day . I think once he does he will become a better player , but its another step up he needs to take .

I Guess that’s a good sign if he is able to work towards that next level. He needs to be elite at something
English is elite becuase his tall and agile for his height
Naughton is an elite athlete And goes hard for the mark

Jonathan brown and Nic Riewoldt went hard at marks and crash packs. NickR was a hard runner as well

[Vred]

I'd be moving Schache on for a pick, he just doesn't cut it for me anywhere on the ground, forward, back, whatever. Soft as a bag of mashmellows

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Bruce needs a good game pretty soon, but let's be honest - he's the battering ram/foil for Naughton. He's not going back and nor should he.

[soupman]

I'd be moving Schache on for a pick, he just doesn't cut it for me anywhere on the ground, forward, back, whatever. Soft as a bag of mashmellows

Presumably if anyone wanted him last year they could have grabbed him for free. Don't see how what has happened this year makes him any more desirable.

[Vred]

Presumably if anyone wanted him last year they could have grabbed him for free. Don't see how what has happened this year makes him any more desirable.

Yeah, that's what worries me, hopefully we can snag a late 2nd or early 3rd for him to some club who needs a KPF, I just don't see where he fits in with us long term

[Mofra]

Some stubborn part of his make up just refuses to budge on his personnel assessments. Anthony Scott, Ryan Gardner, Lachie Macneal were all given so much leeway and support. Lipinski plays one bad game and he's out. Schache plays one game for the year and he's crap. Get rid of him. He's useless. (I haven't heard Bevo say that, but I'm hearing this from woofers)

I disagree with this immensely.
If a player is given a role at AFL level, they must fulfil that role. Lipinski's defensive efforts are still a big area of concern, and comparing a guy who gets genuine midfield time (Lippi) against a role player who spends most of his time in the HF dead zone blocking for the forwards and putting on defensive pressure (McNeil) is impossible.

This year we are clearly focussing more on defence, hence JJ being shifted away from the D50. Players who can play their role are going to be more valuable to us than 'talented' player who play on their own terms. Gardner is quick and plays 100% TOG generally which means we save on rotations, so if he matches any other KPD option his team impact is going to be greater than a comparable player going at 90% TOG. On TV we don't see those things.

Schache: he's not a KPF, he just doesn't play that way. He's a tall flanker whose forte is endurance and skill. He has both of those things in spades but at AFL level in 2021 intensity is paramount and that just doesn't come naturally to him.
I don't think you can compare him to Jones. Jones is a supurb athlete who can accelerate and jump which means he can spoil in the backline. Schache just doesn't have natural acceleration so a good forward would create space against him.

[bornadog]

And then I change teams. Sorry BAD but I never want to see Schache in the firsts again, and Bruce back would be a disaster (he's having a pretty good year Friday notwithstanding, kind of like the team as a whole).

Fair enough, I was just throwing it out there. I don't believe Schache could play CHB either.

If you look at the tall FFs from other teams they haven't really killed us.

We carry on about Cordy on Friday, but you look at the 4 goals out of 11 that Richmond kicked - then it is not a dramatic issue.

Our issue on Friday was when Libba got 1 touch in the 3rd quarter, we didn't have another player stepping in to clear the ball from the centre. This is where we missed Dunks.

[Mantis]

If a player is given a role at AFL level, they must fulfil that role. Lipinski's defensive efforts are still a big area of concern, and comparing a guy who gets genuine midfield time (Lippi) against a role player who spends most of his time in the HF dead zone blocking for the forwards and putting on defensive pressure (McNeil) is impossible.

And don't the MC know it... he lost a couple of crucial contests on Friday night in the 3rd qtr (including one which led to the goal that gave Richmond the lead) and was quickly removed from the midfield rotations. Going to interesting to see how he's handled going forward because he's a bit to slow to be an outside player and not quite hard/ disciplined enough to be an inside player.

[Grantysghost]

Fair enough, I was just throwing it out there. I don't believe Schache could play CHB either.

If you look at the tall FFs from other teams they haven't really killed us.

We carry on about Cordy on Friday, but you look at the 4 goals out of 11 that Richmond kicked - then it is not a dramatic issue.

Our issue on Friday was when Libba got 1 touch in the 3rd quarter, we didn't have another player stepping in to clear the ball from the centre. This is where we missed Dunks.

I thought we had the players out there but didn't get the match ups right. Then we were slow to react.

Keath to Lynch
Wood to Reiwoldt
Cordy to the third, probably Castagna.

Not sure why, when it was evident in the first five minutes we stuck with Cordy on Lynch for the majority.

[bornadog]

I thought we had the players out there but didn't get the match ups right. Then we were slow to react.

Keath to Lynch
Wood to Reiwoldt
Cordy to the third, probably Castagna.

Not sure why, when it was evident in the first five minutes we stuck with Cordy on Lynch for the majority.

As I said that is not where we lost the game. Their smalls kicked 7 of 11 goals.

We lost it out of the centre in the 3rd and we were under siege. You can move all those players around, but the way the ball was coming in, any team would have lost. We had to stop guys like Houli, Bolton pumping the ball inside 50.

Our other issue was we were too slow moving the ball from the backline.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

As I said that is not where we lost the game. Their smalls kicked 7 of 11 goals.

We lost it out of the centre in the 3rd and we were under siege. You can move all those players around, but the way the ball was coming in, any team would have lost. We had to stop guys like Houli, Bolton pumping the ball inside 50.

Our other issue was we were too slow moving the ball from the backline.

Whilst what you say is true, Lynch kicked 3.5 and took 12 marks. He could have done far more damage on the scoreboard. His marking presence also meant we had extra guys go up for the spoil leaving their smalls to crumb the free ground ball. The lack of a quality KPD certainly wasn't the only reason we lost. Our mids were dominated in the 3rd. But maybe a better KPD option than Cordy could have at least limited the damage somewhat to allow our mids to get back on top.

[bulldogtragic]

And don't the MC know it... he lost a couple of crucial contests on Friday night in the 3rd qtr (including one which led to the goal that gave Richmond the lead) and was quickly removed from the midfield rotations. Going to interesting to see how he's handled going forward because he's a bit to slow to be an outside player and not quite hard/ disciplined enough to be an inside player.

Can we put him back where we found him on the half forward line. Started 2018 with 8 goals straight in the first four games. 12.5 in 2018 and 11.4 in 2019. He’s has clear AFL traits, and is a good shot for goal.

[Grantysghost]

As I said that is not where we lost the game. Their smalls kicked 7 of 11 goals.

We lost it out of the centre in the 3rd and we were under siege. You can move all those players around, but the way the ball was coming in, any team would have lost. We had to stop guys like Houli, Bolton pumping the ball inside 50.

Our other issue was we were too slow moving the ball from the backline.

Smalls feed off talls though don't they.

The midfield certainly struggled in that third quarter, but the way the Tigers play they want to bring it to ground in their forward half, lock it in and build pressure off repeat entries.

So if they kick long quickly to their talls who compete and either mark or bring it to ground for the little guys to control on the deck that's a win for them. If they don't control it they pressure our guys for the dump kick back to their wall of defenders; rinse and repeat!

So for me, their aerial dominance particularly deep forward helped them win the game, on the back of their midfield getting on top.
We can't just rely on the mids to win all the time can we?