Hawthorn game - it was SO....PREDICTABLE??

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  • mjp
    Bulldog Team of the Century
    • Jan 2007
    • 7345

    Hawthorn game - it was SO....PREDICTABLE??

    In my footy tipping email in the comp I run, I picked Hawthorn.

    I thought there was literally ZERO chance we would win last night.

    The prognosis is pretty simple:

    Are we playing against a team that is:
    - Prepared to take away - or at least fight the fight - around stoppage?
    - Willing to force us to repeatedly kick LONG?
    - Going to separate our talls from the footy up forward and has viable interceptors?
    - Motivated and willing to apply physical pressure to the ball carrier?

    If so, we are going to lose.

    Yep, I mean - sure. We'll have some moments and because we aren't hopeless and the players do have some pride we wont get blown out. Ultimately there are enough good players + a good enough system in place for us to be a 'hard out'...but we are not going to win.

    I'm sorry to say, we don't "lack an edge". We're ROUND. We have NO EDGE. No desperation to fight it out and see it through.

    Is a single person surprised that after having a week off last week before playing a Hawthorn side who lost both their captain AND their top 10-draft pick/small forward agitator during the week on top of already being without their best player (Day) would come out of the blocks and kick 5-goals to 1 effectively ending the game in 20-minutes? Not one person who posts regularly on here is surprised.

    Is anyone surprised that it all came off the back of our contest being challenged and our defensive system being based on structure vs opponent meant that dangerous oppo forwards found themselves in space with the ball coming in fast?

    I don't know about you guys but I really wonder why I get so invested in this when I know what's gonna happen before the game. Then I have those thoughts confirmed within 5-minutes of the bounce.

    Apparently Bevo was talking to the players about potentially being the "Best Bulldogs Team Ever" during the pre-season. Certainly a worthy thing to aim for and aspire too. But we've gone from a team that once upon a time was always a DANGEROUS fringe side...it was US that knocked off Essendon in that seminal 2000-season of theirs and prevented the unbeaten run. These days? Holy hell - I mean, North Melbourne better bloody watch out...Josh Bruce might kick 10 - but if you're the Brisbane Lions or Geelong (or Hawthorn...or any other 'Solid' footy team)...you're safe as houses. Bank the 4-points and move on. Apologies to Josh for the Drive-By but my goodness between that game and the time we kicked 15 goals in a row or whatever it was against Essendon a couple of years back it all just serves to remind me of the mentality of this group of players and coaches. If you are no good - LOOK OUT. You wont see a better side than us. If on the other hand you are desperate for 4-points and prepared to play committed footy...we're gonna 'try' but, I mean, fair's fair. If you really want it, we're nice blokes...here...here it is. Take it.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.
  • Aidan7557
    Rookie List
    • Jan 2025
    • 174

    #2
    I just don't get putting Libba or Kennedy to Newcombe at stoppages. Don't need to tag him but just do what we did with Butters when we played Port. Arm around him at clearance then play normal, ends up with 28, 10 clearances and a goal. Don't get that at all and he has killed us 3/4 times we have played them.

    Comment

    • jeemak
      Bulldog Legend
      • Oct 2010
      • 21804

      #3
      I think we're following the same path we did to 2021, after a rebuild and it's just the commentariat that has gotten smitten with us even though we've not proved a single thing against opposition that matters, outside of some good form late last year.

      The injuries haven't helped, sure, but the fringe players are either new or haven't developed the resilience and or reliability to execute when it matters. I look at the Sanders missed opportunity as a case in point, where a mature version of him smashes it through post high instead of diddling it along the ground tentatively...........there's too much of that type of thing that happens.

      I look at the clearing kick in the second that didn't go far enough boundary side, rather, it was designed to pinpoint West against two taller opponents but ended up being kicked off the instep towards the corridor side of them - resulting in another scoring opportunity for Hawthorn. It's this type of stuff that tells me this group needs more coaching and training put into them, possibly need to change the mix a little further, and won't be reliable until these things happen.

      Senior leadership on the field needs to be better. They need to set the example for the others to follow as they develop. I'm sick of their bullshit. It's on them to arrange the team and respond at stoppages. If we're going bees to a honey pot and are being picked apart by a team maintaining its width, then adjust to it and be aggressive about it. If we're clearly squeezing up too high then DO something about that on the field at the time FFS. Be vocal and hold team mates to account aggressively.
      TF is this?.........Obviously you're not a golfer.

      Comment

      • The bulldog tragician
        Senior Player
        • Apr 2013
        • 1978

        #4
        I feel conned because I genuinely believed that in matches this year, we have shown an ability to reset and adapt. The losses ( I thought) each had their own story and individual explanations and still gave us cause for optimism - if we just fixed X, got better at Y…didn’t have such a tough travelling fixture…didn’t play Geelong down there…I had the usual misgivings about this match because, y’know, following them for 100 years and the Tragician mentality. I also thought pride would demand that we “atone” for that bad finals loss.

        But we saw the same fragility that’s been there since 2016, and yep it’s a massive concern that can’t be rationalised away.

        also, I felt like a curmudgeon at the time, but I think it goes to MJP’s points about “nice” and beating up on weak sides…I really did not like the emphasis on Bailey Dale getting his 50 touches. The coach being aware of it at 3/4 time, and our efforts to get him to that magical figure by giving him endless opportunities to run past for a handball receive, perhaps it’s old fashioned but it didn’t sit well with me. It made me think of Kendall Roy in Succession. Are we really serious people?
        [url]www.bulldogtragician.com[/url] A blog about being a lifelong fan of the Dogs and our quixotic attempt to replicate 1954. AND WE DID
        Author of [URL="http://www.blackincbooks.com.au/books/mighty-west"]"The Mighty West: the Bulldogs journey from daydream believers to premiership heroes[/URL]"
        Twitter @bulldogstragic

        Comment

        • Uninformed
          Draftee
          • Jan 2023
          • 806

          #5
          I am impressed with MJP's cold hard analysis predicting the result. I was confident we would take them down and was surprised at all the things MJP mentioned were to him not surprising.

          There was some great analysis that BAD posted from Jeff White after the Geelong game about our inability to cope with strong frontal pressure in the first half and the change to hand balling back that got us back on track in the second.

          What change do you think should have been made against Hawthorn?

          Comment

          • 1eyedog
            Hall of Fame
            • Mar 2008
            • 13229

            #6
            Originally posted by Uninformed
            I am impressed with MJP's cold hard analysis predicting the result. I was confident we would take them down and was surprised at all the things MJP mentioned were to him not surprising.

            There was some great analysis that BAD posted from Jeff White after the Geelong game about our inability to cope with strong frontal pressure in the first half and the change to hand balling back that got us back on track in the second.

            What change do you think should have been made against Hawthorn?
            Jeemak nailed it. We gave them width allowing them an out. Happened all night. We could not or simply did not want to equalise around the contest. They retained their shape and we were Paddington Bear all night.
            But then again, I'm an Internet poster and Bevo is a premiership coach so draw your own conclusions.

            Comment

            • mjp
              Bulldog Team of the Century
              • Jan 2007
              • 7345

              #7
              Originally posted by The bulldog tragician
              I really did not like the emphasis on Bailey Dale getting his 50 touches. The coach being aware of it at 3/4 time, and our efforts to get him to that magical figure by giving him endless opportunities to run past for a handball receive, perhaps it’s old fashioned but it didn’t sit well with me. It made me think of Kendall Roy in Succession. Are we really serious people?
              We worry about Ginnivan showing the ball but we try to manipulate a 50 possession game? I’m on the same page as you.
              What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

              Comment

              • SonofScray
                Coaching Staff
                • Apr 2008
                • 4235

                #8
                Originally posted by mjp

                We worry about Ginnivan showing the ball but we try to manipulate a 50 possession game? I’m on the same page as you.
                Who was worried about that?

                surely no one internally has taken umbrage at it. If they have, all they need to do is be better at footy.
                Time and Tide Waits For No Man

                Comment

                • The Bulldogs Bite
                  Hall of Fame
                  • Dec 2006
                  • 11230

                  #9
                  Yeah I had no issues with Ginnivan. Just a bit of fun and we kinda deserve that disrespect, if you want to even call it that.

                  What I'll say about Dale is that he's one of many who enjoys dominating inferior opposition but routinely struggles to handle the heat in big games.
                  W00F!

                  Comment

                  • jeemak
                    Bulldog Legend
                    • Oct 2010
                    • 21804

                    #10
                    Originally posted by SonofScray

                    Who was worried about that?

                    surely no one internally has taken umbrage at it. If they have, all they need to do is be better at footy.
                    Yeah literally no interest or care in what that bogan does. We had the original in Nathan Brown anyway! If anyone internally is stewing over that I'd be pretty annoyed.
                    TF is this?.........Obviously you're not a golfer.

                    Comment

                    • jeemak
                      Bulldog Legend
                      • Oct 2010
                      • 21804

                      #11
                      Originally posted by The Bulldogs Bite
                      Yeah I had no issues with Ginnivan. Just a bit of fun and we kinda deserve that disrespect, if you want to even call it that.

                      What I'll say about Dale is that he's one of many who enjoys dominating inferior opposition but routinely struggles to handle the heat in big games.
                      Dale's more of a symptom of larger malaise rather than the cause when we're not getting near the standard though. We set up to get it in his hands, and just ask him to defend when we need him to. Even when he's relatively ineffective like last night he still got the most touches on the ground. We play well he gets it in better positions and it's not usually up to him when that happens.
                      TF is this?.........Obviously you're not a golfer.

                      Comment

                      • Grantysghost
                        Bouncing Strong
                        • Apr 2010
                        • 18977

                        #12
                        Originally posted by jeemak

                        Dale's more of a symptom of larger malaise rather than the cause when we're not getting near the standard though. We set up to get it in his hands, and just ask him to defend when we need him to. Even when he's relatively ineffective like last night he still got the most touches on the ground. We play well he gets it in better positions and it's not usually up to him when that happens.
                        I thought Dale was good when he had it but useless when he didn't.
                        I wonder what the expectation to defend is for him because he doesn't seem to get into position anywhere near as quickly as he does when he's running past for an easy handball.
                        BT COME BACK!​

                        Comment

                        • Grantysghost
                          Bouncing Strong
                          • Apr 2010
                          • 18977

                          #13
                          Originally posted by jeemak

                          Dale's more of a symptom of larger malaise rather than the cause when we're not getting near the standard though. We set up to get it in his hands, and just ask him to defend when we need him to. Even when he's relatively ineffective like last night he still got the most touches on the ground. We play well he gets it in better positions and it's not usually up to him when that happens.
                          Somehow I answered this twice.

                          He doesn't defend though....like ...at all, compared to say an Impey or Amon.
                          BT COME BACK!​

                          Comment

                          • jeemak
                            Bulldog Legend
                            • Oct 2010
                            • 21804

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Grantysghost

                            I thought Dale was good when he had it but useless when he didn't.
                            I wonder what the expectation to defend is for him because he doesn't seem to get into position anywhere near as quickly as he does when he's running past for an easy handball.
                            I think he is expected to do his best in any contest he's faced with, but then be ready to collect and go.

                            If we're not slowing the ball down up field, and or intercepting then his collect and go is likely to be from a shit spot or under pressure. If he can't trust others who should be winning the intercept or to put pressure on then he's more conservative and less effective.
                            TF is this?.........Obviously you're not a golfer.

                            Comment

                            • Mantis
                              Hall of Fame
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 15412

                              #15
                              Originally posted by The bulldog tragician
                              I feel conned because I genuinely believed that in matches this year, we have shown an ability to reset and adapt. The losses ( I thought) each had their own story and individual explanations and still gave us cause for optimism - if we just fixed X, got better at Y…didn’t have such a tough travelling fixture…didn’t play Geelong down there…I had the usual misgivings about this match because, y’know, following them for 100 years and the Tragician mentality. I also thought pride would demand that we “atone” for that bad finals loss.
                              But we did in this game too... we just had specific individual players who made several critical errors which related in Hawthorn being gifted goals.

                              Comment

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