So what needs to change?

[doggies ftw]

That's what I posted in my first post. We don't handle it well.
It's on our mids to adjust. They shouldn't need a runner out there to tell them the opposition kicking multiple goals in a row isn't a good thing.

Well we don’t really know what’s expected of them, judging by the way Bevo coaches every other aspect of the game I’d be surprised if there’s any directive to go more defensive at stoppages to stop a run on. Ie his refusal to lock down opposition mids etc - the guys in the middle aren’t going to go against directive to play more defensive if that’s not what’s drilled into them, we need different phases to our game across the board, centre bounce, defence etc but from the outside it doesn’t really seem like we do that. Unless we do but we’re just really bad at it who knows

[ArsenalFC]

Good call on kaos - it normally reigns supreme in prelim weekend and in Grand Finals.

That is why we should structure up with only 2 key forwards and the support crew. Not sure what that means for Jordan Croft and where he plays.

Dolan, West and Weightman (fingers crossed) can help with our groundballs - we can't rely on VDM and McNeil. Hopefully Hynes steps up and demands to play 15+ games.

How would you structure up our front half?

I'd go -

Weightman Darcy VDM
West Naughts Mid Rotation player (Trelor/Dolan/Garcia/Kennedy)

We lack that mid-size forward who is a hard match up for teams. Buku at 191cm would be perfect (ships sailed) but i think we're also too tall with Naughts/Darcy/Croft.

I don't mind VMD, he has that piss of the opposition factor which can work for you. Just need to back it up with goals and hard running.

I think Jones could come in but he's not been trusted outside of the final game this season. Showed a bit.

[bulldogSimmo]

I'd go -

Weightman Darcy VDM
West Naughts Mid Rotation player (Trelor/Dolan/Garcia/Kennedy)

We lack that mid-size forward who is a hard match up for teams. Buku at 191cm would be perfect (ships sailed) but i think we're also too tall with Naughts/Darcy/Croft.

I don't mind VMD, he has that piss of the opposition factor which can work for you. Just need to back it up with goals and hard running.

I think Jones could come in but he's not been trusted outside of the final game this season. Showed a bit.

I haven't given up on Artie. I think this season was a write off due to injury but he has shown at the end of last year and briefly this year that he has a point of difference.

[DOG GOD]

What needs to change ?

we need a FB (but won’t get 1)
we need Butters this year (but he will go to Geelong as a FA)
we need to find better replacements for our bottom 4-6 players.
if McNeil, VDM are consistently playing, and with no change to personnel in KPD, then we aren’t contending next year.

[Mantis]

Do our mids elevate their game against the better teams? We have an elite midfield group with elite contest and clearance numbers, but Bont aside they haven't been able to match or even exceed their impact in games against the better teams.

I've been all chips in on building capability and depth in our high half-forwards (and we still need to do this), but it was interesting that stoppage and clearance was overwhelmingly the key score source in the PF's and GF, and final results in all 3 games were heavily impacted on who could dominate this area. We have obviously excellent numbers in this area but they have been heavily skewed depending on who we are playing against.

I’m not sure many of our core players elevate their games against the teams that matter. Rusty12 MVP votes showed huge variation in the scoring in our wins (against shit teams) compared to our losses (against the good teams)… we need to get a more consistent performance from our best 10-12 players, which obviously includes our core mids.

[Topdog]

We’re obviously not terrible at all at the latter, I mean we’re the number one scoring team from centre bounces in the comp, number one score launch team (ie turning first possession/clearance into a score), number 1 effective clearance and number 1 in turning first possession into effective clearances.

You don’t get that profile from ‘hack kicks’ and were clearly one of the best in the comp at taking the ball from inside to outside by hands. It’s our bread & butter.

The problem isn’t our ability to win stoppages effectively, it’s in our ability to stop it when things aren’t in our favour. This IMO comes down to Bevo being reluctant to change the approach when we’re being beaten around the ball. And it doesn’t matter how good you are, at AFL level there will be times when the oppo is on top and beating you.

Whats the breakdown on good teams vs the downright dreadful teams? Offensively our stats look great and we scored the most in the league but our scores drop away massively when we are not playing North, Essendon and St Kilda

[doggies ftw]

Whats the breakdown on good teams vs the downright dreadful teams? Offensively our stats look great and we scored the most in the league but our scores drop away massively when we are not playing North, Essendon and St Kilda

Not sure about that tbh,

we put up 95+ against:
Freo
Adelaide
GC
Brisbane

100+ against
GWS x2
Geelong

played off in lower scoring close games against Pies, Lions & Freo. The only team we struggled to put up a competitive score in was Hawks

Those scores are more than enough to win every one of those games in 2025, but we can’t defend which is the issue

[boof09]

The coach to change his mindset and value defensive and defensive role players. Also as mentioned the bottom 6 to evolve and contribute. A home ground advantage like Geelong's would help also

[The bulldog tragician]

I felt watching the finals we are a long way off. In terms of the skill levels under pressure, the ability to reset during matches, the quality of the bottom six, the fact that there was barely one of those super-easy out-the-back goals, the evenness of contribution across the team - I felt like we have significant work to do.

I guess at the end of 2014 I would have felt we were nowhere near a flag too but we had a high quality of young guys at our disposal who did turn out to deliver on their promise. Our outstanding young superstar is obviously Sam Darcy and you’d think he’d always be a handful but tall forwards don’t always have as much influence in finals when chaos entries are more the norm.

[Scott2016]

Against Freo Baker was ranked 5 best in the team by woof members. Look it up. I was at the game and agree that he was one of our best. When he went near the ball things happened. Explain why he shouldn’t be in the side, I believe that if he had played every game we would have made the finals.

I looked it up. Baker was 4th, one vote behind Freijah. And I rate Freijah very highly.

Baker hardly starred at VFL in the final. Kicked a good goal, had one good smother, and 2 really good tackles. For the remainder of the game he was no better than any SouthPort player who isnt on an AFL list. We want people in the side who are competitive with Brisbane Lions players not just for 5 minutes of the game but for 120 minutes. Its the 115 minutes they go walk about is where we lose the games. Our problem is that we have 6 doing that weekly. We need to improve in that area. If Baker tags McCluggage out of the game for 115 minutes and has 5 good minutes himself im satisfied. But we dont operate like that and it needs to change. Cannot have McNeil getting 7 possessions a game and say he plays a role. If his role wins the game then well done. If it doesnt then the role needs to be changed. The role Gardiner, Lester, Wilmont did in GF influenced the result and 2 of them would be in their bottom 6

[Bornadog]

Baker hardly starred at VFL in the final. Kicked a good goal, had one good smother, and 2 really good tackles. For the remainder of the game he was no better than any SouthPort player who isnt on an AFL list. We want people in the side who are competitive with Brisbane Lions players not just for 5 minutes of the game but for 120 minutes. Its the 115 minutes they go walk about is where we lose the games. Our problem is that we have 6 doing that weekly. We need to improve in that area. If Baker tags McCluggage out of the game for 115 minutes and has 5 good minutes himself im satisfied. But we dont operate like that and it needs to change. Cannot have McNeil getting 7 possessions a game and say he plays a role. If his role wins the game then well done. If it doesnt then the role needs to be changed. The role Gardiner, Lester, Wilmont did in GF influenced the result and 2 of them would be in their bottom 6

My issue with Baker is the same, ie consistency throughout the match, not flashing in and out. That is why I had him in the maybe list to get a new contract.

[Boots]

I know I'm just focusing on personnel because it's about the be trade week, but we need a KPD, we've needed one since 2017. We seem to be OK for intercept defenders, but we've been trying to solve the KPD gap for ages.

We drafted Naughton, who became central to our forward line. Great, he's great there, and I don't want him to move back, especially not the way he played this year. But I do get the frustration of the 'Naughton to Half Back' crowd, who just want us to draft a defender then have a defender, not throw him into a forward line that we also sank the following treasure into, year after year:

1. our hyper-specialised 'around the ground' ruckman for whom we fired every other ruckman on our list
2. enough points for a #1 in the draft academy pick
3. enough points for a #1 in the draft F/S

This is such a glut of forwards that until the JUH fiasco, we needed to disastrously experiment with a 'three-headed monster' and even a 'four-headed monster' because that's what our list required. So yeah, Naughton is central to our forward line, but I do understand why some fans just wanted a guy we drafted as a defender to stay a defender.

Then we went after Liam Jones, who was a gamble that nearly paid off. He nearly got us the premiership in 2021 [EDIT- corrected below, I was getting Keath and Jones confused] but he is now at the bottom of the cliff.

Now what do we do? We've got no draft points (they're all tied up in the forward line, including one generational player and one very bad investment), and apparently no Free Agent will touch us.

This massive gap in our list has been a glaring problem year after year, and has driven us all spare. The high-risk high press game plan we've got as a result of having no backline stocks has result in game after game with strings of run-on goals after the slightest brain fade or poor matchup in the forward line. This has only been made worse by the lack of quality pressure forwards on hand. Fan complaints about Weightman and West in their early career with us, or VDM, Scott, and McNeill, or poor Gardner, or Croft, or Busslinger are all testament to this problem. We keep putting green or workmanlike players in the hardest positions to play (KPD and small forward) and then build a game plan that catastrophically fails if they screw up.

The worst bit is, the game plan is actually genius. It plays to our strengths (stacked midfield - we're still a midfield academy for the whole damn league, with Brisbane, Geelong and Collingwood benefiting from our exes) while covering our weaknesses. But we've pushed it about as far as we can, clearly, and it's just not working.

But how the hell are we meant to close this gap with no available FAs and no draft capital? I have to admit, I'm feeling pretty low about it.

[Bornadog]

I know I'm just focusing on personnel because it's about the be trade week, but we need a KPD, we've needed one since 2017. We seem to be OK for intercept defenders, but we've been trying to solve the KPD gap for ages.

We drafted Naughton, who became central to our forward line. Great, he's great there, and I don't want him to move back, especially not the way he played this year. But I do get the frustration of the 'Naughton to Half Back' crowd, who just want us to draft a defender then have a defender, not throw him into a forward line that we also sank the following treasure into, year after year:

1. our hyper-specialised 'around the ground' ruckman for whom we fired every other ruckman on our list
2. enough points for a #1 in the draft academy pick
3. enough points for a #1 in the draft F/S

This is such a glut of forwards that until the JUH fiasco, we needed to disastrously experiment with a 'three-headed monster' and even a 'four-headed monster' because that's what our list required. So yeah, Naughton is central to our forward line, but I do understand why some fans just wanted a guy we drafted as a defender to stay a defender.

Then we went after Liam Jones, who was a gamble that nearly paid off. He nearly got us the premiership in 2021 but he is now at the bottom of the cliff.

Now what do we do? We've got no draft points (they're all tied up in the forward line, including one generational player and one very bad investment), and apparently no Free Agent will touch us.

This massive gap in our list has been a glaring problem year after year, and has driven us all spare. The high-risk high press game plan we've got as a result of having no backline stocks has result in game after game with strings of run-on goals after the slightest brain fade or poor matchup in the forward line. This has only been made worse by the lack of quality pressure forwards on hand. Fan complaints about Weightman and West in their early career with us, or VDM, Scott, and McNeill, or poor Gardner, or Croft, or Busslinger are all testament to this problem. We keep putting green or workmanlike players in the hardest positions to play (KPD and small forward) and then build a game plan that catastrophically fails if they screw up.

The worst bit is, the game plan is actually genius. It plays to our strengths (stacked midfield - we're still a midfield academy for the whole damn league, with Brisbane, Geelong and Collingwood benefiting from our exes) while covering our weaknesses. But we've pushed it about as far as we can, clearly, and it's just not working.

But how the hell are we meant to close this gap with no available FAs and no draft capital? I have to admit, I'm feeling pretty low about it.

I think you have some of your facts incorrect. Liam Jones came in 2023, not 2021.
Also, the club has tried hard to get a KPD since 2017. We recruited Trengrove in 2018, who was Ports' full back, but I admit he hardly played in the backline. We recruited Keath in 2020 who ended up being a great defender. Gardner came in 2019, Buss in 2022 draft, JOD in 2023 and Lobb switched to the backline last year and played very well. They haven't all worked out so far, but there is still time for players like JOD, Buss.

The club has tried very hard to fill the tall roles in the backline and it was only highlighted this year as a real need due to all the close games we lost.

It would be great if we had a Harris Andrews type to dominate the backline or a Taylor (GWS), but they don't grow on trees.

[Boots]

I think you have some of your facts incorrect. Liam Jones came in 2023, not 2021.

Yeah, that's a big whoops on my part. I think I was getting Keath and Jones confused, which is not fair to Keath.

I don't deny the club has tried really hard. I agree Keath was great, and Trengrove was a worthwhile punt. But that's sort of my point, it only makes it more frustrating that it's still a problem, no?

[Bornadog]

Yeah, that's a big whoops on my part. I think I was getting Keath and Jones confused, which is not fair to Keath.

I don't deny the club has tried really hard. I agree Keath was great, and Trengrove was a worthwhile punt. But that's sort of my point, it only makes it more frustrating that it's still a problem, no?

I would have hoped Buss was best 22 by now, but he still has a way to go. Don't forget last year we had the best defence, but yeah we are still looking.