WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

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  • Bornadog
    WOOF Clubhouse Leader
    • Jan 2007
    • 66580

    Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

    Originally posted by dog town
    Lipinski- 3 times he didn't bend over to pick up the ball which was disappointing. He is better than that and we need him to be. No room in our game plan for double grabs or letting the ball go through your legs.
    I noticed in a few games, players are reluctant to bend over for the fear of being tackled and giving away a HTB. This was really evident yesterday when I watched the last quarter of Crows v Bombres.
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

    Comment

    • Rocket Science
      Coaching Staff
      • Oct 2007
      • 4854

      Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

      Originally posted by bornadog
      I noticed in a few games, players are reluctant to bend over for the fear of being tackled and giving away a HTB. This was really evident yesterday when I watched the last quarter of Crows v Bombres.
      Disincentivizing going for the pill.

      Take a bow AFEL.
      BORDERLINE FLYING

      Comment

      • Axe Man
        Hall of Fame
        • Nov 2008
        • 11118

        Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

        Originally posted by bornadog
        I noticed in a few games, players are reluctant to bend over for the fear of being tackled and giving away a HTB. This was really evident yesterday when I watched the last quarter of Crows v Bombres.
        Sorry BAD but aren't you a proponent of getting rid of prior opportunity? This is what it would look like. Goes against the very essence of the game - win the ball.

        Comment

        • GVGjr
          Moderator
          • Nov 2006
          • 44579

          Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

          Originally posted by Axe Man
          Sorry BAD but aren't you a proponent of getting rid of prior opportunity? This is what it would look like. Goes against the very essence of the game - win the ball.
          Full agree. I want to see our boys hunting the ball and it will be a shame if it gets coached and officiated out of the game
          Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

          Comment

          • Topdog
            Bulldog Team of the Century
            • Jan 2007
            • 7471

            Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

            Originally posted by Axe Man
            Sorry BAD but aren't you a proponent of getting rid of prior opportunity? This is what it would look like. Goes against the very essence of the game - win the ball.
            Any reason that the player cant kick or tap the ball forward?

            Comment

            • GVGjr
              Moderator
              • Nov 2006
              • 44579

              Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

              Originally posted by Topdog
              Any reason that the player cant kick or tap the ball forward?
              Of course not but do we want to see a lot of scrimmages like that?
              Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

              Comment

              • dog town
                Senior Player
                • Jan 2007
                • 1914

                Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

                A couple of Lipinskis efforts were in relative space he just didn’t bend with any conviction to take it one grab.

                Comment

                • Axe Man
                  Hall of Fame
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 11118

                  Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

                  Originally posted by Topdog
                  Any reason that the player cant kick or tap the ball forward?
                  There are times where that is a smart play but I don't ever want to see that as a default position because players are worried that by taking possession of the ball and being instantly tackled they may give away a free. Will look like a game of little league.

                  Do you seriously want to discourage players from getting the ball?

                  Comment

                  • Rocket Science
                    Coaching Staff
                    • Oct 2007
                    • 4854

                    Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

                    Originally posted by Axe Man
                    There are times where that is a smart play but I don't ever want to see that as a default position because players are worried that by taking possession of the ball and being instantly tackled they may give away a free. Will look like a game of little league.

                    Do you seriously want to discourage players from getting the ball?
                    Precisely, let's just reduce contested situations to players engaging in chains of volleyball spikes. We're edging closer to the mocking 'aerial ping pong' jibes of yore.

                    The game's long celebrated blokes who were prepared to put their head over it, burrow to the bottom of a pack and extract to advantage from the mess with vision and guts.

                    Imagine Scott West or Libba the Elder approaching a loose ball with a bloke on their clacker and being forced to think shit, whatever I do I'd better not grab it.
                    BORDERLINE FLYING

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                    • Grantysghost
                      Bouncing Strong
                      • Apr 2010
                      • 18969

                      Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

                      Wasn't the prior opportunity rule brought in during the mid 90s though? We need a rules historian.
                      I am not sure it's the answer (to remove) but I think players will still attack the footy and try and possess it and back themselves to effectively dispose before being tackled. There is nothing worse than a chain of tackles with the ball just being constantly knocked out and held in.
                      BT COME BACK!​

                      Comment

                      • Bornadog
                        WOOF Clubhouse Leader
                        • Jan 2007
                        • 66580

                        Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

                        Originally posted by Axe Man
                        Sorry BAD but aren't you a proponent of getting rid of prior opportunity? This is what it would look like. Goes against the very essence of the game - win the ball.
                        Originally posted by Topdog
                        Any reason that the player cant kick or tap the ball forward?
                        Originally posted by Axe Man
                        There are times where that is a smart play but I don't ever want to see that as a default position because players are worried that by taking possession of the ball and being instantly tackled they may give away a free. Will look like a game of little league.

                        Do you seriously want to discourage players from getting the ball?
                        Whenever a rule is changed or introduced there are consequences that the AFL never think about or think through before making a rule change. What has happened in the past few years (or longer) is when players are going for the ball, and they are about to be tackled, instead of trying to get rid of the ball, they hold it into their chest as hard as possible in order to force a stoppage. Some teams, like us, are good at stoppages, so it is an advantage, however, it creates congestion as all the players converge on the stoppage.

                        In the past you had players like Diesel Williams, Terry Wallace, who were in and under players and went for the ball even though there wasn't a prior opportunity rule. No one wants to discourage players attacking the ball, but if you are about to be tackled, then punch the ball, paddle it along.

                        I think some players are now totally confused because the interpretation has changed mid season and players are not sure what to do.

                        Another major stuff up by the AFL who really make things up as they go along.

                        Originally posted by Grantysghost
                        Wasn't the prior opportunity rule brought in during the mid 90s though? We need a rules historian.
                        I am not sure it's the answer (to remove) but I think players will still attack the footy and try and possess it and back themselves to effectively dispose before being tackled. There is nothing worse than a chain of tackles with the ball just being constantly knocked out and held in.
                        Yes it was in the mid 90s
                        FFC: Established 1883

                        Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

                        Comment

                        • Topdog
                          Bulldog Team of the Century
                          • Jan 2007
                          • 7471

                          Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

                          Originally posted by GVGjr
                          Of course not but do we want to see a lot of scrimmages like that?
                          The situation you are describing is what we see at the moment in my honest opinion and its because of the current rules.

                          Players are confident that they can win a ball up so they just grab the ball and wait to be tackled.

                          Originally posted by Axe Man
                          There are times where that is a smart play but I don't ever want to see that as a default position because players are worried that by taking possession of the ball and being instantly tackled they may give away a free. Will look like a game of little league.

                          Do you seriously want to discourage players from getting the ball?
                          Prior opportunity is a relatively new rule, players have never been discouraged from getting the ball. They can pick it up and handball quickly, they can tap it along the ground, they can kick it further. They still have loads of options.

                          Comment

                          • Bulldog Joe
                            Premiership Moderator
                            • Jul 2009
                            • 5538

                            Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

                            Originally posted by GVGjr
                            Of course not but do we want to see a lot of scrimmages like that?
                            The previous prior opportunity just created scrimmages.

                            I want the game to be moving not scrums and ball ups.

                            Get the thing out and move.

                            So the sequence should be

                            Attack the ball
                            Be aware of what is around
                            Dispose of it at first option (can be tap on) unless clear space.
                            If tackled
                            Is tackle legal - So many In The Back and High are not being called
                            If tackle is legal - did the player with the ball have any opportunity before tackle or is the ball free of the tackle onus to move the ball on.

                            If tackle instantaneous (or near to) before any opportunity AND held in Then and only Then is it a ball up.
                            Life is to be Enjoyed not Endured

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                            • Axe Man
                              Hall of Fame
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 11118

                              Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

                              I can't remember any major change to the holding the ball rule in my footy playing/watching lifetime.

                              According to this the prior opportunity rule essentially was introduced in 1986, albeit under a different name.

                              The next and last major change to the holding the ball rule was the introduction of the 'prior opportunity' rule. The rule was initially introduced in 1986 and known as the "perfect tackle rule": tackling a player who had an opportunity to dispose of the ball before being tackled was defined as a perfect tackle, and the provision for a perfectly tackled player to have a reasonable time to dispose of the ball before being penalised was eliminated. The rule was introduced to speed up the game. This later became the modern 'prior opportunity' rule in 1996, and it was the first time that different holding the ball interpretations had been applied on the basis of what had taken place before the tackle was laid.
                              I certainly don't recall any major change to the rule in the mid 90s, and am not old enough to remember the impact of the rule change in 86.

                              Comment

                              • GVGjr
                                Moderator
                                • Nov 2006
                                • 44579

                                Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

                                Originally posted by Bulldog Joe
                                The previous prior opportunity just created scrimmages.

                                I want the game to be moving not scrums and ball ups.

                                Get the thing out and move.

                                So the sequence should be

                                Attack the ball
                                Be aware of what is around
                                Dispose of it at first option (can be tap on) unless clear space.
                                If tackled
                                Is tackle legal - So many In The Back and High are not being called
                                If tackle is legal - did the player with the ball have any opportunity before tackle or is the ball free of the tackle onus to move the ball on.

                                If tackle instantaneous (or near to) before any opportunity AND held in Then and only Then is it a ball up.

                                Does either option achieve utopia?

                                I don't like players hanging around waiting for someone else to go and get the ball so they can tackle them and try and milk a free kick. We should be rewarding the people who are hunting the ball. That should be the whole principle of the game
                                Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

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