Three things you've learned. Round seventeen 2021 v Swans of Sydney

[GVGjr]

Re: Three things you've learned. Round seventeen 2021 v Swans of Sydney

Well....we we 6-0 with them IN the side.

I'm really over the need to qualify every performance as a team and for the individuals. All the reasons why our wins weren't that good, and how Bruce's goals don't count against North or in last quarters, or late in quarters or whatever. I'm sure if we were playing Richmond this week and won - it doesn't count, because they aren't good anymore. West Coast in West Coast after quarantining for a week doesn't count because they aren't good anymore....but it did count before the game because they'd just got all their players back. But it doesn't count now. Port in Port did count at the time, but it doesn't anymore because they lost to Melbourne.

Every game is hard to win in this competition. To win 12 out of 16 is really good. Injuries happen to every side, but eventually an injury list like ours takes a toll in the form of a down game - and we hit that wall this week against a side that is going really well (remember the Swans beat West Coast by 100 last week......oh wait - that doesn't count because West Coast are not good anymore and it isn't a leap year and that game was at Geelong on a Sunday).

We are absolutely desperate as a supporter group to sh1t on the team. I hear it at the games, I see it on here - and it drives me nuts.

The team absolutely show up and have a dip every week. They are a young team, but they are winning 75% of the time, are getting back 3 A Graders soon and are a chance to win the flag. How many years in our lifetimes have we been one of the teams that can win it?

We got beaten by a better team on the day but I understand why people get frustrated. We are however, a top side this year and have done exceptionally well.

There were a number of positives yesterday but surely on a footy forum it's still OK for people to dissect the game in whatever manner they choose. Or we can keep using soft excuses like 'the team was flat' that isn't overly critical but I'm OK reading the thoughts of others especially when they go into some details to explain their views.

FWIW, I haven't read too many overly emotional responses.

There seems to be some double standards at times which frustrates me, last year it seems like a dozen players were potted because of a perceived weight issues but if anyone is critical of a players actual form then that is a bridge too far for some people to read.

[Happy Days]

Re: Three things you've learned. Round seventeen 2021 v Swans of Sydney

It was truly depressing how easily Sydney moved the ball through our offensive 'zone' .. if that's what you call it.

I was super impressed with how difficult we made ball movement for WC over there a few weeks back, but the last 2 weeks has been a step back to the past... and whilst I gave them a leave pass for it last week, we simply can't dish that up and expect to beat decent-good opposition.

The first kick “out” of defence to the wing was just there for them all day, and is probably directly attributable to the lack of heat put on the kick. Was just not the right mix of forwards selected.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Three things you've learned. Round seventeen 2021 v Swans of Sydney

The first kick “out” of defence to the wing was just there for them all day, and is probably directly attributable to the lack of heat put on the kick. Was just not the right mix of forwards selected.

I blame the coaching group for that. It wasn't like Sydney were blitzing through us with pace, we just stood off them for the WHOLE game and allowed them space.

Sydney clearly went to work on how we set up and how to transition the ball against us. For whatever reason, we refused to adjust our set-up.

[mjp]

Re: Three things you've learned. Round seventeen 2021 v Swans of Sydney

Well....we we 6-0 with them IN the side.

I'm really over the need to qualify every performance as a team and for the individuals. All the reasons why our wins weren't that good, and how Bruce's goals don't count against North or in last quarters, or late in quarters or whatever.

I'm sure the part about Bruce is directed at me. I'm equally sure the rest of it isn't about me but I am going to continue to talk about Josh Bruce and what I consider his perpetual under-performing since he joined the club.

Why? Because yesterday - when Naughton was out we desperately needed him to stand up - he provided us with a little less than nothing. I know everyone is "coming around" to Bruce but I'm just not. After his performances in 2020 I am not prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt - this might be a blind-spot for me but I am battling to get past it. I'm NOT impressed when he beats up North or kicks goals in junk time in losses. I'm NOT.

I get what you are saying - it is hard to kick AFL goals, regardless of who you are playing against or what time of the game it is. But I think it is OK to look past the numbers and see what is happening when (and where)...it is like Simon Atkins racking up 40-possession games in 80+ point losses...does it move the needle at ALL in terms of team performance.

Anyway, I agree with a lot of your points re- "The Sky isn't Falling" and I was fine with yesterday's game 'overall'. But I think it's OK for some targeted ranting that doesn't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: Three things you've learned. Round seventeen 2021 v Swans of Sydney

I've been sticking up for Bruce this year but I was very disappointed in him yesterday. Offered us nothing up forward. He's the veteran forward and he needs to play like one.

Our forward line was overall garbage though. We bombed it into massive packs all day. I wasn't at the game so it was hard to tell, but did anyone make any leads?

[Happy Days]

Re: Three things you've learned. Round seventeen 2021 v Swans of Sydney

Yesterday was his most disappointing outing for sure, but it’s disingenuous to say he isn’t having an excellent season and has been good in “real” games as well as that one time against North (was excellent against Geelong and we straight up lose to Carlton without him).

[1eyedog]

Re: Three things you've learned. Round seventeen 2021 v Swans of Sydney

Well....we we 6-0 with them IN the side.

I'm really over the need to qualify every performance as a team and for the individuals. All the reasons why our wins weren't that good, and how Bruce's goals don't count against North or in last quarters, or late in quarters or whatever. I'm sure if we were playing Richmond this week and won - it doesn't count, because they aren't good anymore. West Coast in West Coast after quarantining for a week doesn't count because they aren't good anymore....but it did count before the game because they'd just got all their players back. But it doesn't count now. Port in Port did count at the time, but it doesn't anymore because they lost to Melbourne.

Every game is hard to win in this competition. To win 12 out of 16 is really good. Injuries happen to every side, but eventually an injury list like ours takes a toll in the form of a down game - and we hit that wall this week against a side that is going really well (remember the Swans beat West Coast by 100 last week......oh wait - that doesn't count because West Coast are not good anymore and it isn't a leap year and that game was at Geelong on a Sunday).

We are absolutely desperate as a supporter group to sh1t on the team. I hear it at the games, I see it on here - and it drives me nuts.

The team absolutely show up and have a dip every week. They are a young team, but they are winning 75% of the time, are getting back 3 A Graders soon and are a chance to win the flag. How many years in our lifetimes have we been one of the teams that can win it?

I'm ecstatic we are 12/4 and sit second on the ladder but also note there are some worrying signs, both at MC level and how we respond when we are challenged on game day. The first six games we played Collingwood, the Eagles at home, Norf, Brisbane in Ballarat, the Suns and the Giants. No world beaters there. I get that you can only win against who you play but the first 6 games certainly weren't a good indicator to determine who were the really good teams or how we compared against them. We've won far harder matches without Dunks and Ads. Credit to the group.

I certainly agree you can choose to go glass half empty / half full on our past performances e.g. West Coast had a lot of quality come back in when we played them / they were poor on the day because they were all underdone. I'm not shitting on us I'm just trying to extrapolate our current form lines across all past games, who we had available and how do I reconcile that internally in order to make top 4 predictions moving forward (because I'll be thinking about that all week). Like we all are.

Some fans are worriers and tend to focus more on the areas where we can be better rather than what we get right. I worry more when we drop games in the last quarter of the year when we are in a strong position because of the very reason you finished your excellent post with. We don't get many opportunities to be in this position, so it's all the more critical that we make the most of every opportunity when we have it.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: Three things you've learned. Round seventeen 2021 v Swans of Sydney

I pretty much judge us based on our last game. I'm not saying I expect the trend to continue, but typically right after a game, you're gonna get emotions and statements that resemble that game.

The last 2 games have looked very similar. Low intensity and effort and allowing the opposition easy transition. Yesterday was compounded with a dysfunctional forward line.

Do I think that's how our season will go from now on? No. Do I think we'll just step up and resolve our problems come finals time? No. It's going to be somewhere in the middle. Whether that's good enough to go all the way remains to be seen.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: Three things you've learned. Round seventeen 2021 v Swans of Sydney

I think there's certainly fatigue settling in with the group. Despite 2 wins, our last 2 VFL games have been fairly ordinary as well, especially from AFL-listed players.

[Bornadog]

Re: Three things you've learned. Round seventeen 2021 v Swans of Sydney

I've been sticking up for Bruce this year but I was very disappointed in him yesterday. Offered us nothing up forward. He's the veteran forward and he needs to play like one.

Our forward line was overall garbage though. We bombed it into massive packs all day. I wasn't at the game so it was hard to tell, but did anyone make any leads?

Some contradictions here? If we bombed it in long, what did we expect Bruce to do in the middle of a pack? He can either try and mark it (which he did try and he is no Naughton), or bring it to ground for our smalls. The smalls just didn't perform.

Swans tactics were to crowd our F50, then get it out quickly by switching the play and taking it up the other end, and it worked.

There were times we locked the ball in for more than 5 minutes, but we just couldn't score.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: Three things you've learned. Round seventeen 2021 v Swans of Sydney

Some contradictions here? If we bombed it in long, what did we expect Bruce to do in the middle of a pack? He can either try and mark it (which he did try and he is no Naughton), or bring it to ground for our smalls. The smalls just didn't perform.

Swans tactics were to crowd our F50, then get it out quickly by switching the play and taking it up the other end, and it worked.

There were times we locked the ball in for more than 5 minutes, but we just couldn't score.

No I'm saying we bombed it in because our forwards weren't really offering anything. So many times they were all just standing in the same area of the ground. And I can't recall many times where I saw Bruce at the front of a pack. I saw Marra and Young more than I did Bruce. He was often at the back.

[Mofra]

Re: Three things you've learned. Round seventeen 2021 v Swans of Sydney

I'm pretty sure if you add 3 A grade players into any AFL side, they become a lot better very quickly.

Dunkley and Naughton will be back sooner rather than later. Go I hope Treloar is back for finals.

[DOG GOD]

Re: Three things you've learned. Round seventeen 2021 v Swans of Sydney

The first kick “out” of defence to the wing was just there for them all day, and is probably directly attributable to the lack of heat put on the kick. Was just not the right mix of forwards selected.

This didn’t just happen against Sydney. It happens every friggin week. We stand off and allow the opposition easy access to the wing (if they kick well). It frustrates me no end.

[DOG GOD]

Re: Three things you've learned. Round seventeen 2021 v Swans of Sydney

I pretty much judge us based on our last game. I'm not saying I expect the trend to continue, but typically right after a game, you're gonna get emotions and statements that resemble that game.

The last 2 games have looked very similar. Low intensity and effort and allowing the opposition easy transition. Yesterday was compounded with a dysfunctional forward line.

Do I think that's how our season will go from now on? No. Do I think we'll just step up and resolve our problems come finals time? No. It's going to be somewhere in the middle. Whether that's good enough to go all the way remains to be seen.

Totally agree. I saw worrying signs against NM. When they can kick 4.8 in the last quarter, either we weren’t mentally there or so fatigued we couldn’t combat it. Watching Macrae yesterday, I saw him sucking in the big ones 3 mins into the 3rd quarter, after sitting on his ass for 20 mins at half time. He was like running on a treadmill.

We had no run and carry, and our fwd line looked as bad as I’ve seen. JJ, Hannan, Marra and Wallis were all liabilities. Make no mistake of that. Naughton cant change that alone. We need a massive improvement in this set up if we are to win finals.

English cannot ruck alone. At least Sweet gives our team balance and structure, allowing English to play fwd. The 3 headed monster worked so well early. It needs to make a comeback.

[The bulldog tragician]

Re: Three things you've learned. Round seventeen 2021 v Swans of Sydney

1. Surprisingly given how it felt on the day, we won contested possessions. I will leave it to more seasoned observers to analyse what that means…my take was they chipped, chipped, chipped … we still maintained a good attack on the ball when it got congested, but they denied those chances.

2. It was significant that Hunter had a relatively quiet day (17 disposals - less than Tim English!). We rarely got overlap. We were so strong early in the year with Treloar and Dunkley in great form. The midfield load isn’t shared around enough.

3. This is a very even year. Being slightly off is enough for a loss on any day and Sydney are hardly easy eats. Each of the top four teams have had disappointing losses, but I think ours have been far more attributable to injury. If we finally have a full list we are still a great chance this year.

Have to do 4: our forward line is so boring without Naughton.